Why Punk Rock is MORE Relevant Than Ever

[00:00:00] Ryan: Gratitude and urgency, catharsis, and a little bit of rage.

[00:00:07] Greg: He was a junkie. His wife overdosed. His best friend overdosed.

[00:00:13] Ryan: Yeah, I think we're all pretty passionate about politics and what's going on right now, and I don't think that it's the time to sing about flowers.

[00:00:25] Derek: Built on sacred burial grounds, because I feel like this band was built on a sacred burial ground, and now we're paying the price.

[00:00:33] Ryan: It takes countless hours of hard work to make something appear effortless. You're going to have to work three times as hard as most people choosing another path.

[00:00:45] Greg: The whole thing is, you're playing your heart out and giving it your all, regardless of who's in the audience and how many people are there. And by the way, once I signed to Warner Brothers, my mom stopped asking if I was going to get a real job.

[00:00:59] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. Got a really fun and special episode here today, something I've never done before. We have a whole band here, so there's going to be three gentlemen that I'm talking to, three musical legends. They're in group called UltraBomb. It's a punk rock super group.

[00:01:16] I had to write that down. I don't even know what a super group is. I guess it's just legends coming together. So I'm a big fan of longevity in terms of my health, but I'd really like to talk to these guys about how to have longevity in any career, but especially one that's so challenging to get in into in the first place.

[00:01:34] So let's bring in these legends right now. We have Greg Norton. He's a founding member of Hüsker Dü. Derek O'Brien. He's a founding member of Social Distortion, not distribution. And Ryan Smith, who's been a part of many successful projects including Soul Asylum. So guys, welcome to Rawish.

[00:01:54] Greg: Thank you.

[00:01:56] Kate: I also want to mention that we are recording at 8:00 AM Pacific time. So I love that I've got these guys up bright and early. You don't think of rock stars up early to record, but I appreciate them being here. So I think a lot of people have this misconception that rock stars, it's just like no one's showing up on time and everyone's on drugs and partying. And yet here you guys are, and you've been in the industry for so many years.

[00:02:21] What do you think is part of the secret sauce in terms of success or having longevity and such a challenging career and environment?

[00:02:30] Greg: I think one thing is you figure out that being up super late and partying all the time and doing all the drugs and having fun, you work through that phase and then, you realize it is a business and that there are other people that you're responsible to. And I think musicians that can make that switch in their brain are the ones who go on to have a long career and thrive in the business. And the ones that don't figure it out, they flame out.

[00:03:00] Kate: How do you have the audacity as a young child to know you have a musical talent, obviously loves doing music, but even getting into the business, especially when a lot of us grow up with parents, like, get a real job, or you can't have a career in music. It's a fun hobby. Where does this audacity to play and perform and even get in the business and make a career of it-- how does that even happen?

[00:03:25] Greg: Personally, for myself, I was working in a record store in 1978, and that's where I met Grant Hart and we eventually met Bob and started-- punk rock was exploding, and we started the band, because there is that do-it-yourself ethos in punk rock that anybody can get up and play music.

[00:03:48] You don't have to be this super talented maestro of your craft. The main thing was, is just to get on stage and do it. For a long time, I still don't necessarily consider myself a great musician, but I love playing, and I keep at it, and I think I am getting better at it for one thing. But I think, really, it's you fall in love with doing it and having that creative outlet, and that's where I from.

[00:04:26] Kate: Ryan, do you want to take us back to being a kid and then even entering into the business?

[00:04:32] Ryan: Yeah. Well, I remember my dad saying, if you're going to choose to be a musician, there's nothing I can say that's going to convince you to not do it. You're either going to do it or you're not. And if you're going to do it, nothing will stop you. And it seems like what most musicians that I've known, that's been the attitude, is they're going to do it. Nothing's going to stop them.

[00:04:57] Whether you just picked up a guitar two weeks ago or whether you've been working on it in your bedroom for years before you decide to get out on stage. So I think it's just a drive that a lot of musicians have that is something that's unstoppable. You just do it.

[00:05:16] And I think you also have to accept when you're going to do it, that you're going to have to work three times as hard as most people choosing another path. It's because it's super hard and you have to work lots of jobs to make it work when you're starting out. And even when you're not starting out, it's a lot of work. And going into it, I think you have to be up for the challenge. So yeah, I think that's the kind of audacity that musicians have.

[00:05:48] Kate: Yeah. And it's a little bit of ignorance is bliss because you all did enter when you're younger. And Derek, I'll let you just even talk about that because-- and you're talking about how you have to work that much harder in the music industry, I think too, with just abuse allegations and so much has come out, and I just hear about deplorable conditions.

[00:06:07] But how do you navigate this as a young person and not-- well, so many people do pass away or do become addicts or so many failed marriages, so many different things in every career. But how did you really navigate, I guess, some of the pitfalls or some of the dark toxic things that we hear about?

[00:06:25] Derek: For me, starting out early, I just threw myself into music. I was a very OCD kid, and literally in junior high, during summer, I would lock myself in my room for eight hours and practice.

[00:06:39] And got into different kinds of music, jazz and classic rock, and then had the opportunity to play with Social Distortion. And like, oh, sure, I can dumb this down and play punk rock. On a personal level, my dad was a very stern police officer, and I was very rebellious. I was disciplined in my music, but pretty much in every other way, I was like, "[Bleep] the system."

[00:07:08] Kate: I appreciate you bringing up drug use because it is synonymous with rock stars and music, and I'm sure you've all seen a lot of tragedy up close and personal, and you're also here with me today, and you're still very successful in what you do.

[00:07:24] Anything you want to a share in terms of what was offered to you, what else you saw, and how you managed to, I guess, escape that path? Anything you want to say about some friends that you've maybe lost, or I think just anything you want to touch on in terms of drug use in the industry?

[00:07:41] Greg: That's the hot topic. Everybody, not all at once here. So I'll share a story. The Meat Puppets were really good. The Kirkwood Brothers are really good friends of mine. And Cris Kirkwood, the bass player, he was a junkie. His wife overdosed. His best friend overdosed.

[00:08:07] But he was telling me that when they signed to London Records and they were doing arena tours with Stone Temple pilots, you get backstage, and there would be people there going like, "What do you want? And what do you want? We'll get you whatever you want." And it was just that easy access that kind of fueled that. Fortunately for Cris, he did get himself clean, but the way that happened was he ended up spending three years in a federal penitentiary because he had a incident at a post office and a security cop shot him in the [Bleep]. But that got him, clean and got him back together with his brother Kirk for the Meat Puppets to keep making music.

[00:08:50] I don't know if you can necessarily say that, wow, what a lucky break. You got sent to prison, but it got him clean, and he's still alive, and he's a beautiful human being. But I think that's one of those things, is people do get wrapped up in that and there is that access to it. And that's been going on forever. Drugs and the music industry definitely seemed to go hand in hand and have for quite some time.

[00:09:16] Gets back to what I originally stated, is the people that do thrive are the ones that figure out, like, okay, if I keep doing this, I'm going to die, or I can concentrate on my craft. And like Ryan was saying, you have to work three times as hard. And the old saying, hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard. And I think that's absolutely 100% true.

[00:09:48] Kate: Yeah. Ryan, what do you want to say in terms of-- I know you've seen a lot too, and how it's really impacted you, and I have compassion for the drug use because, a, it's just in your face. It's the environment. It's the culture. But also you're expected to be up and all late hours of the night performing and entertaining and then keep doing it and traveling around before big budgets and fancy tour buses, if you ever even reach that level. But how has that drug use being synonymous with your entire career and being so accepted really impacted you?

[00:10:23] Ryan: For me, I had family members that had issues with struggling with substance abuse and things like that, and I saw early on how damaging it was and how it wasn't a good, glamorous path to go down. So like everybody was saying here, it's everywhere when you have access to a lot. And you do have to keep yourself amused sometime, where you're-- there's a lot of hurry up and wait in world of rock and roll.

[00:10:59] And that can sometimes be tempting to fill your time with things when you have access to things that-- so probably like everybody, have had my own struggles of these things, but it never got bad. I never had a drug problem or anything.

[00:11:15] Definitely know a lot of people that have. In fact, I just heard from an old friend who had the world pretty much at his feet. He was on the cusp of being extremely successful, and drugs really, really, really messed him up. And I just heard from him the other day. I only hear from him like once every blue moon.

[00:11:36] It's just sad, I guess. It's sad, and yet it's really, really common. So I think as musicians, again, it's the same thing. It's like you just have to accept it's a part of the reality but also try to keep your head on straight and stay focused on the work. That's really what keeps me going personally.

[00:11:59] Kate: Do you think that drugs help with creativity or take away from it? I feel I'm my most creative when I'm in silence or in nature and connected to source. But do you think that's part of it too, is helps you write some good music?

[00:12:14] Ryan: More often than not, no.

[00:12:17] Kate: Thank you for saying that. Wow.

[00:12:20] Greg: I think the people that believe that the drugs help their creativity, that's their perception is skewed by those drugs, and they might think like, wow, this is the greatest thing I ever wrote. And other people hear it and go like, "Hmm, okay."

[00:12:40] Kate: Thank you for-- that soundbite there, I want every young person, every young musician, especially to hear. I actually wasn't expecting that. Thank you for that. Derek, do you want to say anything to round out this topic?

[00:12:55] Derek: What comes to mind, for instance, Stevie Ray Vaughan, who had a drug problem and was an alcoholic, he got sober and then did his best album and then died in a helicopter crash. And I just imagine people who are doing all this great work while they're doing drugs, David Bowie and Elvis Costello at one point were each putting three albums out in a year because they'd stay up on speed on tour and write their albums and just constantly create.

[00:13:23] But how much work, and what quality could they have been putting out if they were not on drugs? Just because they happen to be creative geniuses and happen to be on drugs and still get albums made doesn't mean that the drugs helped them.

[00:13:39] Kate: Thank you. So that brings me to my next question. As a creative, and there's so many people, even if they're stuck in corporate and they'd love to heighten their creative gifts so they could step out and have creative careers, how do you-- whoever wants to take it. I'd like to hear from each person, and I need it for myself too.

[00:13:56] How do you personally tap into that creativity and not put so much pressure on yourself to write the hit song or to come up with something by Tuesday at 4:00 PM or have this whole album done in a month? Because again, you've done it for so long and you're downplaying your success and gifts, which I appreciate your humility, but how do we tap into our creativity a bit more?

[00:14:21] Derek: I think it's different for everyone. And like you pointed out, after you've been doing it for a long time, it's like, okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves, pack a lunch and go to the studio and be creative. And other people look at you like, "What? How is that even possible?"

[00:14:39] But you tap into it in different ways, I would say. And I think the biggest thing for me, that I've discovered is just trusting your intuition that you have it, and you have it to tap into. And so that confidence allows you to treat it like a regular task or job or thing that you do, and you don't question it. It's there somewhere. It's going to be different, maybe a little bit each time, but you're going to find it.

[00:15:07] When people start doubting themselves and have to, "Oh, I'll never be good--" And some people, maybe it's not for them. What you have to decide is whether it's for you or whether it's not for you. Once you decide it's for you, then you're going to find your angle. You're going to find your creative energy, and you'll find a path to it.

[00:15:28] Greg: Yeah, I think what really helps is being a good listener and being able to hear what is going on in the room and being open to ideas from everybody. I think we've all have worked with particular musicians that have a mindset that, well, my way's the right way, and it's going to be like this.

[00:15:54] And I think that stifles the process. I think the best things happen when everybody is open and they're listening to what's going on in the room and playing off of that, instead of thinking like, well, what about my agenda?

[00:16:09] Derek: Yeah, that synergy is really where you get the best of all the cumulative creative energy of everyone in the room, times, whatever combination that equals. That is definitely the big payoff and how you do it.

[00:16:26] Greg: Right. And that goes for producers too. The best producers are also listening and not just trying to put their stamp on something.

[00:16:35] Derek: For sure.

[00:16:37] Ryan: Yeah, I think one time I heard somebody say inspiration is for amateurs. That's true in a sense because you just have to, like Derek said, roll up your sleeves, show up to work every day. And if you do and you allow yourself the freedom to fail and you allow yourself to experiment, you take some of the pressure off, and you come up with better ideas because you're not filtering yourself too soon.

[00:17:02] So you just go, and it's messy, and you just try ideas. You chase every weird inspiration and just see where it goes. And then you filter it later. And like what Greg was saying, that's such important part of the synergy with the team, is you sort through the ideas and you see what sticks, what everybody feels, and it all starts to gel. So I think it's showing up to the job, doing the work, and then having the synergy of everybody, working like a team.

[00:17:34] Kate: Inspiration is for amateurs. I've never heard that. That's genius.

[00:17:39] Derek: That is great. I think to Greg's point, it's as much staying out of the way when some idea is happening for somebody as it is jumping in and having the ideas. Just like a good song. You overplay, you're crushing it, destroying it. If you don't try your ideas, then you've missed an opportunity. So it's a very delicate balance.

[00:18:04] Greg: Yeah. And I think when you've got a group that gets together and people are listening, things come together relatively quickly. Particularly with the three of us, we've got very deep toolboxes to dig into, and that helps in the process.

[00:18:24] Derek: Yeah. Greg, how many shows have these three people played together total at this point?

[00:18:32] Greg: At this point, now we are up to five shows plus the cameo and the punk rock garage.

[00:18:46] Kate: I was just going to ask, the three of you have played with so many different groups, and now you're together with UltraBomb, and you've played five shows together. So how do you not just make it believable-- and we all think you've been playing together for years, how do you even go about connecting both energetically and musically so well, so quickly?

[00:19:07] Ryan: I can say, from my point of view, both of these guys here, I've admired them for years and the bands they're in. And so it's like playing with them feels really natural. There's no effort into trying to make it feel like it gels. It just gels because, there's some, at least on my end, I feel a musical connection to what they're doing that almost, it feels innate.

[00:19:35] So it's pretty easy, actually. When the chemistry's right, it's easy. And when the chemistry's wrong, you have to really try to make it appear a way. But I haven't felt a need to appear any-- it feels 100% natural with these guys.

[00:19:54] Derek: Oh, thanks, Ryan.

[00:19:57] Kate: What do you say about that, Greg? How do you make the magic work here?

[00:20:03] Greg: Like I said, I think it comes down to listening and being open. Ryan was thrown right in into the fire when he joined the band. He had a couple of weeks to learn a set while he was on tour in Europe with still Asylum. And then we had two rehearsals before the show.

[00:20:27] And the first night it was rough. It was the first time the three of us played together. And then the next night it was like everything just fell into place, and the show was great. Obviously, there's some bumps in the set, yes, but we're the only ones that noticed. And it just felt really natural playing with Ryan. And again, like Ryan was saying, it's like when you have good people and you don't have to put out a mask where you're like, "Oh, okay. I'm going to fake my way through this just because I'm a professional or whatever, but this was not gelling with these people."

[00:21:05] The three of us have definitely been gelling. There, again, we've all been playing for a long time, and like I said, we've got deep toolboxes to dig into and tricks to pull out. And, listening to everybody, you know how to integrate all that stuff.

[00:21:25] Kate: And I'm hearing really embodiment because, forgive me, I'm not a musician. I so appreciate those of you who have this skill and this gift. Is it something where you just-- when I watch you perform, I feel it in my bones, in my body, and it looks like you're not trying, and I know that you are. And again, to learn so many different songs, I don't even know how you do it.

[00:21:47] Is it less thinking and more feeling? That's the athlete in me. I'm just so curious. For those of us who can't do what you do, maybe walk us through that feeling on stage or to go from so many different bands and songs and members and still show up so present and just letting it rip. How do you even do it?

[00:22:05] Ryan: It takes countless hours of hard work to make something appear effortless.

[00:22:11] Greg: Yeah. Practice is you game at muscle memory, and then rehearsals are to prepare for the show. So when you get to the show and you're playing it, you don't have to sit there and concentrate and think too much and it just flows. Although I'm sure all three of us have also been, at a certain point, on the road towards the end of a tour. You might be up there and you're playing, but you're also thinking to yourself while you're playing, wow, I wonder if there's laundry at the hotel tonight. Stuff like that.

[00:22:50] Kate: Thank you for the honesty. Derek?

[00:22:53] Derek: Yeah. I'd like to add to what Ryan said. His first show with us in Minneapolis was him learning the songs while he was on tour just with headphones. And then showing up, he had two rehearsals. The first one was like, okay, the songs are sounding a little different than the record arrangements and this and that.

[00:23:14] And then the second one just gelled. And then he played the show with us. He first sat in with a friend's band on the bill. Then he played with his own band, The Melismatics. Then he jumped into playing for the first time with UltraBomb and played the set, singing and playing guitar for a three piece where there's nothing to hide behind. So that's what a champion-- that's what that looks like.

[00:23:40] Kate: Wow. So I'm experiencing what makes UltraBomb so special, each of you individually, and then of course collectively. And I'm experiencing and feeling the mutual respect here.

[00:23:52] What else is so fun for each of you about this group in particular and how you've brought all of your experiences from childhood and all the other bands and all the ups downs, highs, lows, to make this really, really special? And now we can all experience you on tour, and I want to hear what else is coming out, but I'm feeling-- again, I talk about embodiment. I can feel the specialness of this group.

[00:24:17] Greg: Yeah. For me it's the music. We're writing music that's fresh and current. I hate the term super group, because the reality is former members of, that doesn't really translate into ticket sales. What gets people out to your show is what you're doing now.

[00:24:41] And promoters are also like that, where it's like, what have you done for me lately? Type of thing. They don't care what you did in your past. So it's writing new music, that is fresh, and yeah, we're definitely not a nostalgia act. We're not trying to just recreate something from our past.

[00:25:01] I think a lot of bands do get stuck in that where either trying to do something new, but they're really just copying what they've done in the past or even established artists that stick to their formula that works instead of try pushing themselves to do something different.

[00:25:20] So in a way, I think we have the best-case scenario where we're able to create this new music, but also I don't think any of us are going like, "Hey, don't you know who I am?" So in reality, former members of bands don't necessarily sell tickets, but what they do get is usually at least one or two guys with a stack of vinyl that they want autographed.

[00:25:51] Derek: Don't you know who I think I am?

[00:25:54] Greg: Don't you know who I think I am? That's right.

[00:25:58] Derek: We've played a total of five shows together, and now that we're an old road band together after these five shows, next week Monday, I believe, we're getting together and just coming up with new material for the next album.

[00:26:15] Kate: Awesome.

[00:26:16] Derek: [Inaudible] show, and this will be the first time we dived into new material.

[00:26:21] Kate: And since inspiration is for amateurs, when you show up to create this new content, new material for a new album, you're not showing up with inspira-- so are we just showing up and listening? I just would love to be a fly on that wall when you're creating new music.

[00:26:40] Derek: Bring a lunchbox. Do it. That's pretty much it.

[00:26:45] Ryan: Yeah, that's it. And we've started online-- I say online-- Greg writes. He sent lyrics to me, and I'm working on some ideas from that. And then we're going to collaborate all together in person. And so we're not going in totally with a total blank sheet of paper here. But yeah, it is showing up and just working and working through concepts, ideas, and exploring together on it.

[00:27:16] Kate: When it comes to lyrics, because if I'm sitting down-- I'm a writer, and so I'm writing about my own life. But when it's three people, I don't know, again, with different songs. But let's say Ryan, you really want to write about this woman who broke your heart when you were 16, for instance, and then is everyone writing around that. Or then Greg's bringing in his heartache and Derek thinking of Sally from sixth grade. How does that collaboration work?

[00:27:45] Ryan: I got the title for that one. Sixth Grade Sally. We got it.

[00:27:49] Derek: It's a little young.

[00:27:50] Ryan: Yeah.

[00:27:54] Greg: Yeah. My approach to writing lyrics is you never know where you're going to get inspired to write something. Sometimes it's personal. Sometimes it's political. Sometimes it's just nonsense. You get a thing in your head and you just start putting words to type and text into your phone or pen to paper or whatever.

[00:28:22] And sometimes a full song will come out. Sometimes it's just a little snippet, which I'll tuck away, and then later I'll go through and look through all those bits and actually find three or four that it's like, oh, these actually all work together really well. And there's a song. So heartache is definitely-- that's low-hanging fruit in the music business, but I don't know. Yeah, you never know what's going to inspire you.

[00:28:53] Kate: Do you want to touch what's going on socially and politically? What is your stance or take on that to do it in such a public way in 2025 in America?

[00:29:05] Greg: I think it's a really important time to speak up about what's going on. That's what the administration wants, is people to be complicit and silent. You just look at what happened last week with the cancellation of Stephen Colbert in his show, which is 100% political.

[00:29:29] You can't convince me that it was for financial reasons. It's definitely the time to speak up and to speak against those injustices. And punk is very inclusive and has always basically been a place to stand up and speak out against authority. So we got to keep doing it.

[00:29:55] Derek: I think on a personal level, this last run that we did, the West Coast, we started out in Washington, and we were supposed to meet with a band that [Inaudible] who is from Canada, and they came to the border and just sat there and were never given their work permits to get into the States.

[00:30:18] So we had to start the tour without the headlining act, and we were thrown into doing these headlining shows. But seriously, with no reason, they just weren't given their work permits. They had applied in plenty of time, and we could go into why that is, but we know why that is. And that just happened. So it's very personal. It's very right on in the moment for us.

[00:30:46] Kate: Ryan, anything there?

[00:30:48] Ryan: Yeah, I think we're all pretty passionate about politics and what's going on right now, and I don't think that it's the time to sing about flowers and happiness. There's a lot going on. Not every genre maybe has that part of the music that's supposed to be speaking about social or political things. But punk rock definitely has that ingrained into the music. So I think it's on everybody's mind. It's going to come out into the music.

[00:31:27] Kate: Have you ever felt silenced in this industry? You were around before cancel culture and stuff, but have you ever felt, because of labels or one thing or another, that you couldn't say certain things? Even now, are there any fears or concerns, or are you just like, "We're going to let it all rip?" And again, you have the punk genre behind you where you can be a little more out there, but are there any fears or concerns with expressing yourselves creatively in this climate?

[00:31:55] Derek: No.

[00:31:56] Greg: Not really. The thing is it always seems that people that do complain that like, "Oh, I can't say this anymore." It's like, well, why would you say that in the first place? Too many people don't think before they speak. I don't know. If you're a good person and you're looking out for everybody and you want to bring everybody in to your table, you're not going to be out there spewing a bunch of stupid stuff that's going to alienate people.

[00:32:29] Kate: Okay, we can move on there. I'm curious if each of you could share a story from your just really incredible music career that has really made you who you are today as an artist, and then how you bring that into UltraBomb to make it a success now and moving forward.

[00:32:48] Derek: You go first, Ryan.

[00:32:50] Ryan: Okay, let think about that. So you're asking a transformative point of music?

[00:32:57] Kate: Yeah. Or just something first that comes to mind and you think, like, this happened and how it really impacted you as an artist.

[00:33:07] Ryan: I think what I'll say for that is I've seen over and over that every show that you play has an impact no matter how many people are there. So whether there's a small crowd or a big crowd, every show's very important. And I've seen other bands have life-changing experiences because of one show where there was no one at, or there were two people there.

[00:33:33] And the two people that were there ended up being from the music business in Europe, and then they pass around the information about this band, and then within a night-- for example, this band Radkey, they're really good friends of mine from long ago. I saw them play at South by Southwest, and they played at two people other than me and the band I was there with.

[00:34:00] And the two people were big executives from England. And then they had another show at South by Southwest that night, and we also went to that expecting to see nobody there, and the room was completely packed with people from the music business in England. And then they had a big record deal.

[00:34:19] They were on tour with Metallica and doing all kinds of cool stuff within this short period of time. They were managed by the same people as The White Stripes. The point is, if they had blown off that show and thought like, ah, we're just playing for our friends and these two random people here, it's not about what you're going to get out of it, but the point is you can have hugely impactful things happen from whoever is there.

[00:34:45] So whether it means like it leads to something cool, or it just means that it really affected the people that were there, they might have gotten inspired to pick up guitar. They might decide to start writing music or start a record label. You don't know what impact those shows have. So every time you play, just give it your all.

[00:35:09] Kate: I love that. And then just quickly, I'm putting you on the spot here, but even I love that story so much. I felt that because even sometimes you post something you think is epic on Instagram, for instance, and the algorithms, everything, and you're like, "Man, that didn't get much reach." And then it's like, what if it impacted just one person?

[00:35:28] Is that one person not worthy of that? Or you're right. Whether the one person is someone who can't do anything for you or your career or isn't even going to tell you what you did, or that person puts you on a huge show or something. But is there something else that happened to you or for you personally that has really shaped you, who you are today and how you show up?

[00:35:49] Ryan: I am sure there is. I don't know.

[00:35:54] Kate: Okay. You can think about it. You can think about it.

[00:35:56] Ryan: Let me think about that.

[00:35:57] Kate: Okay, okay. Derek or Greg?

[00:36:00] Greg: Go ahead, Derek.

[00:36:03] Derek: Comes to mind is the very first show that I played that wasn't just a party or a backyard thing, which was-- it was a VFW hall. I was like probably 18, 19, working at a record store in Fullerton, and there was this really cute girl I wanted to ask out. And we had a show lined up.

[00:36:25] So I asked, Kate, to bring her to my very first show with Social Distortion. And so she did. Get to the warehouse, and it's a pretty big warehouse. It's in East LA, and this is in the early '80s when the gangs were at their height and crime insane in Los Angeles.

[00:36:50] So the place fills up, and I forget who else was on the bill. Some other bands that are pretty known. But the first thing that happens is there's a big circle pit and somebody gets stabbed in the circle pit and then dragged out stretcher. The gig just gets crazier and crazier.

[00:37:13] And the violence [Inaudible] was just off the hook. So we play our show, and then as soon as we walk outside, somebody's shot at the gas station right across the street. And then there's just swarms of police cars coming to the show. And then they see all these punks leaving the door, walking out, and that was when like, oh my God, look at this. This guy with Mohawk. So just complete mayhem. And that was my first punk rock experience.

[00:37:47] Kate: And you're still here signing up for this. I love it.

[00:37:51] Derek: Yeah. I'm walking out my date and just like, okay. We just look at each other like, yeah. All right. So we'll run towards the fire, I guess. This is just how things are with. This is what it's like to play gigs as a musician.

[00:38:08] Kate: Wow. And you started dating after that.

[00:38:12] Derek: Yeah.

[00:38:14] Kate: Naturally. Okay, great.

[00:38:16] Derek: [Inaudible] out alive. I got the girl, and that started the whole like, wow, this is really dangerous and exciting. You have to think about different things and not just music and not just how to play the nodes and the songs. There's just a whole world wrapped around it. Get used to it.

[00:38:39] Kate: And yeah, thanks for reminding me because I always say, "Oh, I just want to go back to the '80s and '90s when things were so great." And I love that you bring up crime was so bad in Los Angeles. Things get somewhat better, and crime is bad again. So thanks for just even reminding me of the circles and cycles of life. The '80s weren't perfect either, so there's always stuff to manage outside of our own little personal lives and bubbles. Greg, what's coming up for you? I know there's a story here.

[00:39:09] Greg: Going off of Ryan's story about seeing Radkey with two other people, the early Hüsker days, we'd be out on the road, and you'd get a phone number from somebody. It's like, call this number. They'll put out a show. And then that person be like, yeah, I'll do a show.

[00:39:30] And then you'd show up and just hope that there would be people there. We played a lot of shows to small crowds, and we'd get up, and we'd start playing. Interestingly enough, if it didn't look like people were getting into it, then we'd literally actually try to clear the room.

[00:39:48] We would just get louder, play crazier, and it's like, all right, let's see if we could actually get everybody the hell out of here. And those shows are, I think, good ego checks, number one, keep you humble. But the fact is that we kept at it. And so then eventually, the band starts to get a reputation for being just this intense thing.

[00:40:15] And so now the rooms are filling up, and the crowds are getting bigger, and eventually Hüsker Dü signs to Warner Brothers, which is amazing. And by the way, once I signed to Warner Brothers, my mom stopped asking if I was going to get a real job.

[00:40:31] Kate: How old were you? How old were you when that happened?

[00:40:35] Greg: Let's see. We signed to Warner Brothers in 1985, September of '85. So I was 26.

[00:40:44] Kate: Wow. So young. Very young.

[00:40:46] Greg: Yes. Of course, the band broke up two years later, and then it was back to square one. And since then, with various bands, I've played to very small rooms, to the point where you can literally just get off stage and instead of thanking everybody from stage, you just get down and just walk around and shake everybody's hand and say, thanks for coming and sticking around.

[00:41:09] Fame's not guaranteed, and it's also fleeting. So another reason to treat everybody kindly, because you never know who you're going to see on the way back down. I think too many people step on people on the way up.

[00:41:27] Kate: Yeah. And I'm hearing just perspective there because as a creative myself, and sometimes you just get so filled with frustration. We've all experienced doubts. One thing or another, you look at some people and you don't think-- their work seems bland or generic, but they're crushing it because maybe they're appealing to the masses or something.

[00:41:44] And I just love the confidence. And again, the audacity too. Oh, they're not liking it? And so just literally blasting them out of the room, but then that became your thing. And then the rooms are filled. I'm taking in so many epic lessons that my head is exploding because, again, you're not just saying the word. You embody it, and you're living it and do live it in real time.

[00:42:06] And that is the confidence. And not being like, "Oh gosh. But just rocking it even harder. And that becomes your thing. For me, I'm feeling it in my chest. It's exploding because I feel like an amateur with this inspiration here. But I am very inspired by these stories.

[00:42:26] Greg: Actually, I think all of us have had moments in our careers where we're like, what am I doing? What am I even thinking? But you love the music so much that you keep doing it. You don't give up.

[00:42:41] Kate: And is that something where in that moment, you're on stage looking at each other? I don't know if you were-- I don't know. There's no right or wrong answer. If you're feeling insecure, if you're feeling pissed, and you look at each other where like, screw it. And you did just blast people out of the room.

[00:42:58] Can you talk about that moment? Because we've all had that moment creatively and how we can all just like, well, screw it, and blast people out of the room. Can you tap into that energy for me? Because I'm feeling it.

[00:43:09] Greg: I think the main thing is, the number of people in the audience, be it two people or a packed room, I'm still going to get up and play as hard as I can and play my heart out. Sometimes the motivation to do that comes from different parts of your brain. It's like, ah, there's nobody here. This is going to make me play hangry tonight, or whatever. Or the room is packed and it's like, "Oh, wow." It's coming from a point of joy. But the whole the whole thing is you're playing your heart out and giving it your all regardless of who's in the audience and how many people are there. And I think that's just more being true to myself as a musician more than anything else.

[00:43:57] Kate: So if I were to go to an UltraBomb concert next week, what is that emotion that the three of you are collectively playing with right now?

[00:44:08] Derek: Probably, we're going to actually get to play the shows this time. This is going to be [Bleep] great.

[00:44:17] Kate: So gratitude.

[00:44:19] Ryan: Gratitude and urgency, catharsis, and a little bit of rage.

[00:44:26] Greg: Yeah, there we go. Every time UltraBomb gets up there, there's a sense of urgency. The band is very dynamic, and we play loud, and we play fast. So that's definitely the urgency there. Let's break along in a little rage. That's okay too.

[00:44:46] Kate: I want to hear more about the rage because I worked with my therapist this past year with a little bit of rage. We all have it. We all have childhood trauma. You guys have been through a lot. I know. But speak a little bit about that rage. I was a swimmer, so I got a lot of emotions out literally in the pool through exercise. But as, again, a non-musician, I just would like to even feel that in my body, what you're feeling. Because I'm feeling that release. Oof.

[00:45:14] Ryan: I think that this kind of music punk rock and what UltraBomb is doing gives you a medium to just let your frustrations out. It's super healthy. There's so many things to be frustrated about now. Where do we start? Just the world is a mess. The political situation is disastrous.

[00:45:32] It's frustrating. And you put all of your frustrations and anger into the music, and it's a healthy way to deal with it. It's a really healthy way, I think, for everybody that's at the show to let it out and hopefully in a way make the world a better place by doing it. It's allowing a space for people to feel these intense emotions that are going on right now.

[00:45:59] Greg: Yeah, we have a job where we can go to work and just scream. I'm sure a lot of people would love to go to their jobs and just scream, but it's okay when we do it.

[00:46:09] Kate: Oh my God, I love it. I need to come to a show. You're right. What a release.

[00:46:17] Derek: I feel like we've allowed ourselves to tighten up the set, but then for certain endings and segues, it's like, okay, primal therapy.

[00:46:29] Kate: Yeah. This question's coming to mind. Forgive me if it sounds silly, but Ryan, for instance, your band mates from Soul Asylum, do they feel like you're cheating on them, or do they get mad when you leave them and go off to UltraBomb? How does that work when everyone's part of different love groups?

[00:46:48] Ryan: Yeah. There's a long history between Hüsker Dü and Soul Asylum, and I think there's a brotherhood of sorts with bands from Minneapolis that are with a similar aesthetic and ethos and stuff. So I feel like it's all in the family more than anything. Yeah, it's difficult to try to make it all work, but I think I, and I feel everybody's like, if the desire is there to make it work, it will, and it does. So as far as I know, everything is totally cool in that way.

[00:47:28] Kate: Thanks for that. So it's more of a family instead of some caddie fight.

[00:47:31] Ryan: Yeah. I think the part of the music scene in Minneapolis that I know and love is supportive. It's not like competitive. Yeah, there's competition, of course. Yeah. But the caddie part of it is, I don't know. I don't see that a whole lot. I'm really glad I don't, because that's not fun for anybody.

[00:47:55] Kate: Yeah.

[00:47:57] Greg: Actually, I think this is funny. I started out in 1979 in Hüsker Dü, and it seems like back then it's like you were in just one band, and you put all of your energy into one band. And if somebody had a side project, it was like you were stepping out on your main gig. And today, all the musicians that I know are all in multiple projects. And it's like, oh, you're only in one band? Man, that's lazy.

[00:48:36] So I think there's a better understanding that you can have multiple things going on, and you're not taking away from any other one of your projects, and I think that's great.

[00:48:55] Kate: Mm. Thank you guys so much. It's flow, and it's been so fun. But I guess what has been the biggest delight, surprise, blessing here with joining forces with this group at this stage in your life and career?

[00:49:08] Ryan: I think it's an exciting new opportunity to be creative, to collaborate with these guys. It feels really fresh and really exciting to me. So that's the thing that I guess I'm most excited about, is working on new material with these guys. And like I said, I have the utmost respect for them and fans of their bands and everything that they've been doing over the years. So that's really cool this far into the game to have this new win, this new door open. So that's what I'm most excited about.

[00:49:43] Kate: Thank you so much, and we'll let you run. Have a great session. It was so nice to meet you. Be in touch. Thankyou.

[00:49:48] Ryan: I'll see you guys.

[00:49:52] Kate: He's so cute. Okay. Derek or Greg, want to take that?

[00:49:53] Derek: For me, Darren Human actually introduced me to the band, and we were going to work together where I was going to produce some recordings with them. I went to punk rock bowling, and we hung out. A little bit chit chatted with everyone, and then shortly after that, their drummer left.

[00:50:10] So then Greg suggested that I come in as drummer. So it was like a whole different thing, but it sounded like a great opportunity. And it was like, yeah, sure, I'll do some recordings with them. And then I listened to the two albums, gave him a really serious listen.

[00:50:26] I was like, "Holy [Bleep]. This stuff's really good." And then I was really into it. And then we talked about just having me come in, and he was like, "Okay." So one conversation on the phone, he's like, "All right, you're the drummer." Like, okay. But yeah, it was really exciting coming in.

[00:50:47] And then we played a couple of shows in San Diego. The first one, I had all my notes written out, some charts and all this stuff because I was still learning the stuff. And then after that, I felt a little bit more comfortable, but then something else happened, the singer guitar player. And again, it's just a three-piece band.

[00:51:09] So a third of the band left, and then we were left scratching our heads, "Okay, so what are we going to do now?" So I was thrown into an interesting situation, but the music was there, the energy, the whole nucleus, but not the band members.

[00:51:34] And then we kicked around a bunch of ideas, and then finally Ryan came up. I think Darren suggested him, but you, Greg, had already known Ryan. Then I just hoped for the best, and he showed up, and he was the best. So it was like, okay. And then I think just weird [Bleep] happened, but then all of a sudden everything's back and it's like way better.

[00:52:02] Kate: Wow. It's just reminding me like-- sorry. This is to let go of things needing to be perfect. You guys are all just going with the flow. I guess you're great at that as musicians. But it's everything went to [Bleep]. But then three of you here now, it's so perfect. Again, it's such a good metaphor and lesson.

[00:52:22] Derek: It's like people running out of a burning building, but the firemen runs towards the fire. We're the firemen. And then it just worked out that way. And then at the last tour that we did, we got into it, and we had to cancel the tour after three shows.

[00:52:42] And Greg made a comment that I'll never forget, which I think would be a great title for the next album, built on sacred burial grounds. Because I feel like this band was built on a sacred burial ground, and now we're paying the price because many [Bleep] up things have happened, but then all of a sudden, it just comes right back together.

[00:53:02] And that's [Inaudible] to why the band started and why Greg put this band together and what was there to begin with. And he added the other elements that just seemed to be the right fit, and now it's a stronger thing.

[00:53:20] Kate: Mm. That gives me hope. Thank you. Thank you. And Greg, you're a resilient, dude.

[00:53:27] Greg: That's the word I was going to use. I think you have to be resilient. This is my passion. This is the thing that keeps me young and keeps me going. So I had mentioned earlier that we all have moments where we think like, why am I doing this? Why am I putting myself through this?

[00:53:46] But like I said, it really does boil down to the fact that I love doing it and I love playing the music. And it doesn't matter if there's two people in the audience or if we're playing to a packed house. And being able to play with Derek and Ryan is a treat because these guys are super talented musicians.

[00:54:03] I'm really looking forward to us starting the creative cycle now for this next record. And I was really lucky. UltraBomb recorded two albums literally in the studio in four days both times, which was a little nerve wracking, but it worked, and we got lucky.

[00:54:23] But part of that, I think, gets back to the fact that Jamie Oliver and Finny McConnell have been in the business so long, and they're both really talented. And like I said, we've had a deep toolbox to dive into, and that's why it worked. But not necessarily a model look that I wanted to continue working with, and so I'm excited to start writing new music with these guys next week and see where it goes.

[00:54:54] Kate: I can't even just feel without even hearing the music, which would put a whole other charge in my body, just energetically, each of you on your own, but together. I'm feeling so amped up. Usually, I feel quite sleepy at this time of day. I am just slowly getting into my flow, and I feel amped up like it's 9:00 PM and I'm ready to go on the weekend or something.

[00:55:16] So thank you. I can feel the passion in your bones, and so I can't even imagine how the audience feels when you're performing. And yeah, you're getting the rage out, and you're screaming, and the music's loud. So I really hope that everyone can experience this. And then when can we expect another album from this trio?

[00:55:35] Greg: If everything goes to schedule, we should have a due record out next spring, early spring.

[00:55:43] Kate: Awesome. Awesome. And then in terms of the tour, it's going to continue on for, is it another month?

[00:55:49] Greg: We've got August 1st through the 9th. We're playing nine shows in a row around the Great Lakes, the Rust Belt tour. And there's some irons in the fire, so to speak, for fall tours, but nothing solid yet. So that's where the agent needs to do their job.

[00:56:11] Kate: Okay. We'll get the agent going, and we'll all stay tuned. All of your information will be in the show notes. Just quickly, I know I got to let you guys go, but for those of us who we're going through a lot, we feel sub-creatively, we're navigating so much, we're feeling all the feels, you are just like the cat with 25 lives.

[00:56:34] And to be doing this for-- my God, I was born in '78. You started Hüsker Dü in '79, and you're still rocking. One little tidbit. I have so many takeaways from today, but one little tidbit of how we-- and the dog's even getting all fired up. Even the dog is getting excited. How do we all just keep going when things seem down, when the cards are stack against us, when the world is on fire? How do we keep going creatively?

[00:57:06] Greg: I guess it's the only way I know to operate, is just to take those situations and turn it into some music, which makes it a positive. For me, anyway.

[00:57:21] Kate: I think probably for me it was the creativity, is because of those adverse conditions. And it's always been that way for me. The more it comes at me with adversity, the more I get in touch with what's creative because that's always gotten me through. That's what I trust the most.

[00:57:45] Just leaning into that through the trust. Thank you both so much. The punk rock super group. I love the super group instead of former band of this. So I get what it fully means now. I had an idea. But thank you so much, members of UltraBomb. You've just been such a delight, and I feel so fired up, and I hope everybody else does too. Thank you for being here.

[00:58:06] Derek: Great. Thank you.

[00:58:07] Greg: Thanks for having us.

[00:58:08] Kate: It was so fun. And thanks to all of you for being here. Go check them out. Get the rage out. Get the creativity flowing. We'll see you next week right here on Rawish. Bye, everybody.