A Masterclass in Resilience with Rugby Star & Quadriplegic Robert Paylor

[00:00:00] Robert: Why should we wait to lose something before we start showing appreciation for it? We should be appreciating it while we have it right now.

[00:00:10] Kate: It's amazing that one person can say one thing to us and it change the whole trajectory of our life.

[00:00:17] Robert: Why would someone possibly take this on? Because I don't know if I would. And my wife did, and she does every single day and just completely changed the way that I view myself. My life isn't normal. It's not anywhere close to where it was. There's a lot of sacrifices that I have to take on every day.

[00:00:39] Kate: If Robert can do it, I will forgive this guy too. But I'm mad.

[00:00:41] Robert: Everything I do now in my life, I'm looking forward because that's where I'm going. I'm not looking behind me at the things in my past. I just can't think of a single situation where forgiveness is not the answer. Because we're not hurting anybody else. We're just hurting ourselves. These injuries are catastrophic, and they're chronic.

[00:01:00] Kate: Hi there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. Have you ever been having one of those days where you just feel off? You feel sad. You feel, why is this happening? I'm so frustrated. I don't understand, but I'm open to understanding. Well, I was having one of those days two days ago, and I was sitting at a cafe and reading about my guest that you're going to meet in just a moment here.

[00:01:26] And even just reading about his story transformed my whole mood and brought everything quickly into perspective. And I found myself just so full of emotion, just even reading about his story. And then I had the honor and privilege of getting on a Zoom call with him shortly after that. And I said, "I'm glad that you're married and you're used to emotions and things like that because I just had this release."

[00:01:54] And it wasn't a boo-hoo. It wasn't, I'm sad. It was just this profound moment of appreciation for everything that I have in my life and how quickly things can change, and to be so grateful for where we are and who we are and in the moment. And I'm getting emotional because this is one of the most extraordinary people you will ever know. I promise you that, and I'm so honored and delighted to welcome Robert Paylor to Rawish today. Thank you so much for being here.

[00:02:21] Robert: Oh my gosh, Kate. Thank you so much for having me. And I don't know if you can see it, but I'm blushing as red as a tomato from your intro, so this is going to be so much fun.

[00:02:28] Kate: You are just one of the most extraordinary humans I've ever met. I can't wait to meet you in person one day. You're a superstar in your own right. You were one of the best rugby players in the country playing for the National Championship with Cal Berkeley. Go Bears. And you found yourself in a unfortunate situation.

[00:02:54] And I would love for you to just take us back to that moment and what happened, and then we'll journey to where you are now. But I just want to prepare everybody to be touched, but also to listen very carefully because we're talking to a real life hero here. So take us back to that moment, one of the probably most exciting and prominent moments in your life, I would guess.

[00:03:18] Robert: Oh yeah, totally. It's the day my life changed. The day was May 6th. It was 2017. I will forever remember that day better than any day of my life. So I wake up and I think it's going to be the best day of my life. I'm competing for the Collegiate Rugby National Championship. I'm 20 years old, starting for the best team in the nation.

[00:03:37] So Cal Rugby, it has an incredible legacy of success over at Cal. So it's actually Cal's first intercollegiate sport, first varsity sport. We started competing in 1882 in rugby. And it's funny, there was actually a period of time where football was banned in America. There were people who were dying on the football field, so they got banned. And you would have just pack out stadiums in America with rugby players.

[00:04:04] Cal Berkeley was really a hub for that rugby success in America, and here I go and find myself, maybe about 150 years later, whenever it is, over competing in this national championship. My dreams are coming together for me in my life. And I'm also at such a great school and I'm just loving my life.

[00:04:25] It's such a good time to be me. And as I'm getting ready to compete in this game, I'm just going through my motion. We're feeling really confident. We're playing Arkansas State, who's never won a national championship. We were going for a 31st national championship on that day. So we felt really confident that we were going to get this thing.

[00:04:43] And it's a day of legacy too. When you win a national championship, you're not just the national champion for the day. You are a national champion for the rest of your life. So I was really excited about this day, but it's very early on in this game, a minute and a half in that I'm competing in what's called a maul. Have you ever seen a rugby match before? Have you ever watched one?

[00:05:07] Kate: You're intense. You guys scare me.

[00:05:09] Robert: Oh yeah. It's pretty intense. And the maul is one of the most intense moments. All the big guys, we group up in a unit. We're pushing to advance the maul, and then the defense's job, they come straight in. They try to stop us from moving forward. So very much a boiler room. It's where the big guys thrive. And I was a big guy.

[00:05:29] I'm still 6'5, but at the time I was 245 pounds. I was on the field to move people that don't want to move. We're five meters out from scoring. I'm drooling on the field thinking, let's go, Rob. Drive it in. And then as I started doing this, the opposing players, they're making these illegal moves, but the referee's not calling anything.

[00:05:48] So immediately three players come in from the side of the maul, which are penalties. You can't do that. But the ref's not calling it. And then the number eight comes in. He binds me to headlock, so he is got my chin pinned down to my chest. Automatic yellow or red card in rugby.

[00:06:02] You can't even touch the head or neck, but the rep's not calling it. And I decide I'm just going to keep moving forward. I'm going to play through this. We're going to score. But as I do that, another player chops me on by my legs. So I start falling forward and down, but this guy is twerking me down by my neck. I can't get my head up.

[00:06:20] So essentially, the top of my head hits the ground. My body keeps going forward. My forehead slams against my chest. It gets pinned against my chest. Literally nose into my sternum. My neck snaps. I feel this God-awful crunch in my neck. I open my eyes, and it's just, poof. Pins and needles everywhere. My collarbone down.

[00:06:40] You know that feeling when you take a nap, you wake up, and can't feel your hand and all that? That as intense as you can imagine everywhere on my body. And then I start doing this inventory. So I'm like, "Okay, try to move over. Just move your hips. Get your core engaged." It's not happening.

[00:06:58] I look down at my feet because I'm on my chest, head tucked down into the left. I'm like, "Okay, move your legs." Nothing. I look over at my arm. I'm like, "Wiggle your fingers, something." Nothing's happening. And keep in mind, I didn't lose consciousness for a second.

[00:07:18] And they also didn't stop the play. So they're still continuing to play rugby around me. I'm screaming, I broke my neck. I can't move. Medical staff is running out to me. Thank goodness nobody landed on me in one of those moments because if they did, my injury certainly would've been worse. I might not have even survived this, and we might not be on this call today.

[00:07:39] So then eventually the trainers and doctors are doing their assessments. They're like, "Robert, can you feel this? Can you move anything?" It's all nos. No, no, no, nothing. And my thoughts are just running wild because I had seen stories like this before. I'm sure a lot of us have seen them on TV or scrolling through our phones where something like this happens to someone and they can't move anything. They can't feel anything.

[00:08:06] These injuries are catastrophic and they're chronic. They're not something that usually just disappears and you wake up fine one day. You have to deal with it for the rest of your life. And I'm thinking, I might be a high cervical complete quadriplegic for the rest of my life. And I envision this reality where I'm going to be in my wheelchair. I'll probably get pointed to look out a window with a TV going on in the background.

[00:08:34] My mom will spoon feed me to keep me alive, and then one day she's going to die, and then I'm just going to die alone and purposeless. That's the rest of my life, is what I'm thinking right now. Then I remember when I really knew it was bad. I was getting stretchered off the field. And what do people do in a lot of those moments when they're getting stretchered off and the crowd's clapping? They give a thumbs up.

[00:09:01] And I was thinking in the back of my mind, like, I'd love to do that, but I don't even want try because I know it's not going to happen, and it's just going to give me a lot of anxiety. And one of my family friends was there that day. I think he was trying to see how I was doing, how bad this really was. And I heard him yell like, "Robert, give us a thumbs up." And I couldn't do it.

[00:09:22] I tried so hard, and I couldn't just give a thumbs up. And I'm just thinking, this is so bad. And I get over to the hospital. We take our medical scans. Doctor comes back. He has a bad look on his face. He says, "Robert, you will never walk again. You will never move your hands. We're going to do our best so that you can feed yourself again one day. That's if you even survive."

[00:09:44] He recommended surgery to me, a spinal fusion surgery, which would essentially permanently cast my vertebrae together that had been broken. He said it was my best chance as stability and recovery, but it's a potentially life-threatening surgery. There's a lot of important real estate right here where they're doing this. My body was already freaking out. I had a steady 103 degree fever. I picked up at 105 one point. My body didn't know what to do.

[00:10:06] There was a lot of risk going into this. And he told me I had about an hour to make a decision of whether or not I would go into the surgery. So I got to get my affairs in order fast. And the first thing I do is I call my spiritual director. My faith is very important to me. And in this moment, I needed to invite God into this moment and into this recovery period.

[00:10:30] I'm asking for prayers, asking for advice. He gives me this piece of advice before he hangs up the phone that just changed everything for me. And it gave me so much power that I've used in my life since. And he said, "Robert, throughout this journey, there's going to be a lot of things that you can't control. But the one thing you'll always have control over is your mindset.

[00:10:52] "So your positivity, your ambition, your willingness to wake up every day and fight this is up to you. And this injury can't take that away from you." So in that moment, I got to think like, I didn't have a lot. I didn't have the odds on my side. I didn't have these signs of life showing up in my body.

[00:11:10] I didn't have some doctors saying that everything was going to be okay. But I had this decision to keep moving forward, to not let all these emotions and circumstances control my outcomes and my decisions. I am in control of my mindset. I'm in control of my choices. I think that's something that we all need to remember when going through those really tough periods in our life when we don't need to have smiles on their faces.

[00:11:32] I don't think we can control our mood. We can't control whether we're happy or sad, but we can choose to keep moving forward. And in that moment, it gave me a lot of mental clarity, where I was able to keep moving forward, and I decided that I should go into this surgery and I should really give myself my best chance at this recovery.

[00:11:49] So I remember my brother came into the room and held the phone in front of me. I FaceTimed my best friends. I told them about what happened, that I might not see them ever again, and that I love them. And we typed out some messages as well to some groups that I was involved with that I wanted to let know the news.

[00:12:07] And then my family came together. We said our prayers. I got rolled into that operating room. They put that gas mask over me, and I started counting down from 100. I think I made it to 97, and I passed out, and that concluded that day for me.

[00:12:23] Kate: Wow. Thank you for sharing all of that. I'm just so riveted. It's like watching the Netflix documentary or film that you never forget and you wish you could give the main character, you, a hug. So for me, it's so special to talk to the hero here and what a hero's journey that you're on.

[00:12:41] I'm so sorry that you experienced this. And to go through something like this at the hands of somebody else and not even an accident or, I'm so sorry, but an illegal hit and that they kept the game going. And I want to get to, if you've spoken to that gentleman. But I commend you for even-- that was eight years ago?

[00:13:03] Robert: Yeah. Eight years, almost exactly eight. Yeah.

[00:13:05] Kate: Eight years. And for you to be sitting here, just such a delight with the light in your eyes and on your face, and you would never know that you went through anything even close to this. And you're just glowing and you're making such a difference in the world. Thank you for the human that you are.

[00:13:23] When you think about where you were then and where you are now, besides the mindset, and it's amazing that one person can say one thing to us and it change the whole trajectory of our life and the outcomes and how we choose to think about ourselves and our circumstances and our life, what is something that you would like to share?

[00:13:47] Even with me, and I was in a much less dire situation the other day, and that really did it for me. And I never want to compare or judge, but I just felt so silly. I said, "You know what? My problems today are so silly in comparison, not just to you, but some other atrocities going on in the world."

[00:14:04] And so what do you say to someone who may be going through just a challenging human day or something-- they're in a war zone or something like that.

[00:14:13] Robert: Yeah. So for me, I really encourage people to use comparison in a healthy way because so often we use comparison in the worst way possible. And we look up. We look at the people who seemingly have more than us. It seems like they have everything going on. We compare that to what we go through or how we look or how we feel, and we feel bad about ourselves.

[00:14:34] It's a really unhealthy comparison. What's that saying? It's like comparison is the thief of all joy. You can totally use it in that way, but I think we can also use it in a really healthy way. So I look back on those moments like on May 6th, 2017, with what I was going through back then.

[00:14:50] I compare it to what I'm going through now, and I'm filled with gratitude. I'm like, "That's amazing that I went from that to this." And when I'm going through a tough moment, I'm thinking like, old Robert Paylor would give anything to be in this situation right now. So there's this saying that I use when I really need to cultivate that perspective and that healthy comparison. I'll say, "Compared to what?"

[00:15:12] So I'll be like, "Oh man, I'm really tired. But compared to what?" Or, "There's a lot that I'm going through right now. But compared to what?" There's so much that I can do, and there's so much that I do have. Now I think just saying that doesn't make anything better. And it might actually make ourselves mad.

[00:15:30] We shouldn't just be using tough love on ourselves all the time. I think beyond that, we really have to go seek out stories of people who are going through it right now. And there is always somebody who has it worse. That is a universal rule. Like back then, I would look up stories on my phone of people who are going through really difficult situations.

[00:15:50] We're talking about cancer patients, homeless people, people in war zones. People who are in terrible situations, something that nobody should ever have to go through, but I look at them, explain how they make their lives happen every day. And a lot of times they have a smile on their face. And I just think, remind me not to complain about anything ever again.

[00:16:12] Because if these people were in our situation, they wouldn't be upset when they have to get up out of bed early in the morning. They'd be excited that they just got to get up out of bed. And I think that perspective, it's like the key to happiness, really. That it's not all about our circumstances and our accomplishments.

[00:16:31] Why can we go to the cliffs of Malibu right now and talk to billionaires who are horribly depressed? Or we can go to a third world country and find people who are smiling and laughing in their communities. It's obviously not their situation and not their circumstance. I think it's really their perspective that allows them to feel that gratitude and joy.

[00:16:51] So I think when we're going through difficult times, we really need to spend those intentional moments seeking out stories of people who are overcoming tremendous adversity, not to dismiss our challenges. I think it's really healthy if we just dismiss our challenges, or ignore it. The challenge will never go away. But to put our challenges into perspective. I think when we do that, it's a very empowering thing, and it gives us a lot of joy in our lives.

[00:17:15] Kate: It reminds me of when I was in Africa and I was living and working in Zimbabwe, working as a journalist. My boyfriend at the time was a wildlife biologist there, and so we were living in the African bush. It wasn't some rich American safari trip. It was better because there were the lions. I'd wake up to a lion pride roaring outside my window.

[00:17:35] Robert: No way.

[00:17:36] Kate: I would just walk down the path to the next house, to Duke and Nikki's house, and it was just the wild boars and the chimpanzees and all the baboons. They would just walk right past me like pedestrian. And it was just, who's ever going to have a trip like that? And being so hot. I'm always hot.

[00:17:54] I was so hot. There's no AC in the bush, and we're sleeping under all these mosquito nets. And I just felt so uncomfortable. And then there was staff that worked at these homes. It's like the white people had the black staff. It's just how it is over there. And the staff was literally living outside.

[00:18:12] They had nothing. They probably made, what, $2 a day? They were the most joyful people I've ever met in my life. They're walking around in bare feet, and it's so hot. The children were walking to school in bare feet. The women had those huge heavy jugs on their head, and I just thought, what is going on?

[00:18:30] But you'd meet them, and they're so happy. Way more joyful than, like you said, the billionaires down the street here, who you run into at the coffee shop. And so I remember just giving them literally the shirt off my back. My $5 flip flops from Walmart made their day. It was like giving them Lamborghini.

[00:18:46] And so it does. It really does put those things into perspective. Another huge takeaway I've had from your story is a mentor of mine years ago said to me when I was having some physical ailments, and I was very angry, and I felt all this in my body, she said something to me that I will never forget.

[00:19:03] And it was so unexpected because I was waiting for the answer to what I could do. I wanted the solution to this problem. And she said, very pointedly, who have you not forgiven?

[00:19:14] Robert: Hmm.

[00:19:15] Kate: What does that have to do with my stomach issue or my anger? And it reminds me so much of your story because you have had, in many ways, a healthy recovery.

[00:19:25] And I'd love for you to talk about the role that forgiveness has played in your recovery story and played to the glow that you have in your face right now, and what you're doing to help uplift humanity now. And I'll just let you share about the gentleman who illegally hit you and made you become quadriplegic. And I want to hear what that's about. But what role does forgiveness with this gentleman play in your story?

[00:19:52] Robert: Huge, huge role. In terms of just my mental wellbeing being, like you said, just that glow and that joy, it's critical and probably the most difficult hurdle that I had to overcome in that internal rage that I had after this injury. So first it was difficult to figure out what exactly had happened to me.

[00:20:19] I knew I was taken down. And in rugby, these mauls collapse a lot. I'd probably say like half or maybe more than 50% of the mauls that start end up collapsing. You don't all end standing up. It ends nasty, but never are people breaking their necks in this thing.

[00:20:39] And then it was a few days later, maybe three days after that, we started getting this video evidence, this photo evidence from the try zone, where our touchdowns are and stuff like that. The end zone, we call it try zone in rugby. And the sideline that I was clearly bound around my neck, driven all the way down to the ground, and that's what caused my paralysis.

[00:21:01] If I wouldn't have been bound that way, my head would've been up, and I would've just slid on the ground like I had hundreds, thousands of times before in these other [Inaudible] mauls. But because I couldn't get my head up, that's where all the things started to add up to where my forehead slammed against my chest. And I'm looking at these pictures and videos, and I'm filled with a rage that I can't even describe.

[00:21:24] Kate: I am too. Oof.

[00:21:25] Robert: Oh. Because at that moment, after that surgery and everything, I had pneumonia, and I couldn't cough, so they're shoving tubes into my lungs trying to suction the stuff out. Every three hours, someone would come in for a breathing treatment.

[00:21:42] So they'd slam on my diaphragm, essentially trying to generate some force because I couldn't clear my lungs on my own no matter how hard I tried, if I could barely even breathe. And I couldn't eat anything. So we put a tube that went up my nose, down into my stomach. Took three days to eat in there because it broke my nose so many times playing rugby.

[00:21:59] And then every two hours someone would come in to shift my body so I didn't get a bed sore. Every one hour someone would come in to check my vital signs. I didn't sleep. I craved just getting 20 minutes to doze off. And even beyond that, I was scared to fall asleep because what if I had some coughing fit and I wasn't awake for it and I couldn't alert anyone. I could die.

[00:22:19] I'm going through all this and I'm thinking about how this isn't happening because it was some fluke or because I was out doing something stupid. Someone broke the laws of our game, and because of it I'm paralyzed and I might spend the rest of my life like this. I might not even get better. I might even die.

[00:22:38] And it really came back to my faith right away, that I was taught in every situation, regardless of how much hatred I feel, how bad I feel, that I ought to forgive others regardless of what I'm going through. And it was like a test. It was like, okay, am I actually going to live up to that, or am I going to drop it?

[00:23:02] Am I going to drop that value in that teaching when the thing really is tough? And I decided, okay, if I don't feel it, I'm just going to say it, and I'm going to fake it till I make it. And just when people would ask me, Robert, what do you think about this guy? What's your take? I would say, I forgive him and I wish him well. But deep within me, there was still a lot of rage.

[00:23:22] That's not something I could release by just saying a few words. But as time went on, I stayed on that path of forgiveness. If I ever got off of it, I tried to get right back on. I'd say, "I forgive him, I wish him well. I forgive him. I wish him well." And as I said those words and time went on, I allowed time to run its course to slowly let that anger release from me to where after a few months, I find myself one day being like, wow, I'm not even thinking about this person.

[00:23:54] He doesn't even cross my mind. And of course, I forgive him. Of course, I wish him well. I felt it too. So it gave me some time to reflect that forgiveness is not all about just removing guilt from someone who did wrong. It's really about us. It's about removing those negative attachments from the person who was wronged.

[00:24:15] And I just can't think of a single situation where forgiveness is not the answer. Because we're not hurting anybody else. We're just hurting ourselves at that point. And I think we also need to realize that like, yes, our thoughts have a lot of influence over our actions, but our actions can have a lot of influence over our thoughts.

[00:24:35] And if we choose to give words to that rage that we're feeling, it's just going to make it worse, and it's never going to go away. You're just adding fuel to that fire, and you're probably going to get burned. But if you can just step back and when you're feeling it, just take a deep breath, disconnect from it for a while, recognize it, and don't act on it, then over time it will get easier.

[00:24:57] You will allow time to run its course, and you can not just say that you forgive someone, but you can really feel it internally too, and then you've moved forward. Everything I do now in my life, I'm looking forward because that's where I'm going. I'm not looking behind me at the things in my past. And that was a real journey for me.

[00:25:14] But something that I think we all need to access, not even just for others, but we need to forgive ourselves as well for the things that we've been through. Don't give words to that rage that we feel. Keep moving forward. It's always what's best for us.

[00:25:27] Kate: Wow, you're such a character of a true champion, and you're not just saying the words. I think the difference-- and I feel everything for better or worse. I believe you when you say it. A lot of people, especially in the media and on podcasts, say things and it sounds good, and then you may see them off camera or something and it's a mismatch.

[00:25:46] And for you, I truly feel in my body every single thing that you're saying because you've truly embodied it. And yours really was a life or death situation. And I can tell how it's played such a vital role, like an IVv, like a vitamin, like sleep in your recovery and you being able to thrive after this. I got to know though, did this gentleman reach out?

[00:26:10] Did you have any conversation? What has been your experience around this guy? Do you know his name? Do you say his name? Do you call out his name? Anything that you can share? Because I candidly am angry. I would never, but I want to punch this guy. I want to put him in a headlock. It's enraging. But I also feel forgiveness in my heart because you've extended that outward. And so I'm like, "If Robert can do it, I will forgive this guy too." But I'm mad.

[00:26:37] Robert: Yeah, that's such a good point to bring up. I can't believe I didn't even say it because that was the hardest part of the whole thing, is he's never reached out to me, and he's never said he's sorry. So you go through everything that I was going through in that hospital and then add on the fact that there was no remorse or sorrow being shown, it made it just that much more difficult to say those words. I forgive him. I wish him well.

[00:27:01] I do know who he is. I know his name, and I'm sure he knows who I am too. And I'll have a lot of people ask me, actually, like, Robert, you've gone through this journey of forgiveness. Have you ever thought of reaching out to him? Because the phone goes both ways.

[00:27:21] And I thought, like, hmm, fair point. In the past, there were some times when like I was ready to send that DM or just like something, but more in terms of spite, not from a really healthy point of view. And thank goodness I didn't. That's when I'm still really going through my journey of forgiveness.

[00:27:43] And now I just got to think like, "Okay, I've done my healing. I truly forgive this person. I've truly moved on. I don't know if he's done his healing though. And I don't know if he's fully come to terms with this." I have heard some reasons as to why he hasn't reached out. One was legal counsel, that he was advised by a lawyer not to reach out to me because it could be viewed as like an admission of guilt.

[00:28:10] I don't buy that as a valid excuse. I think if you're to say, "Hey, I'm sorry that this happened to you." Doesn't mean like, I'm sorry I broke your neck. It's a very different thing. And then also the statute of limitations is two years. So we have six years here now where he could literally say anything, and even if I wanted to pursue legal action, I couldn't do anything.

[00:28:32] And to be clear, I never wanted to sue him. I don't think he tried to break my neck. I don't think he wanted to paralyze me. I don't think anybody would be that depraved. Do I think he was trying to bring this maul down? Yes. And he did it in a very inappropriate way by breaking the rules. That's what's led to what's happened with my life. But I don't think he tried to break my neck, and I don't want to ruin his life too, which is why I've never said his name, and I never will.

[00:29:00] Yeah. So there was that, and then I also heard that there's some people in his corner who just convinced him that he didn't play a critical role in my injury. That there was just a lot of factors that were going on.

[00:29:11] Kate: Denial.

[00:29:12] Robert: Yeah. I think it's a denial thing. And who knows? Maybe it's not, and I'll give him that. But I would be very surprised if the message hasn't been sent to him some way, somehow that I do forgive him. That I moved on.

[00:29:28] To be honest, for me, it doesn't matter whether he reaches out or not anymore. I've totally gone through that. So I think in terms of this whole contact thing, it's more like his healing. And I think if he's ready for that, then he'll reach out, and I'll tell him that I forgive him in that moment. It's been quite a journey, and we're both a couple of young guys. We're both 28 years old, so we got time.

[00:29:51] Kate: Wow. If you're listening or watching to this, welcome to your masterclass in integrity. Something the world could use a lot more of. I'm like, "Can you run for president?" We need you as a world leader of every country. Can you imagine the kind of place that the world would be? It's almost like you're this magical Disney character where it's like, man, I want to meet someone like that in real life.

[00:30:12] Robert: Yeah.

[00:30:12] Kate: And he's married, ladies. Because otherwise, I feel like I'm going to get more emails than ever, like, introduce me. You are Prince charming. It's remarkable. You're giving me so much hope and faith in humanity. I'm like, "Someone like you exists, and you're still so young and have this wisdom that 100-year-olds don't have." It really is remarkable. If you could or would reach out to this gentleman, we won't even go back to then, but in this present day, what do you imagine saying to him?

[00:30:47] Robert: I think I would probably lay out everything that I've been through. This has been the fight of my life. I had this injury, and I battled pneumonia, and I couldn't swallow anything. I lost 60 pounds in a month, and I've seemed like I was going to die. And I've been battling these last eight years to just gain any shred of mobility back that I can.

[00:31:07] And I haven't let this beat me. I can walk 500 yards in my walker now, 500 yards. It'd be a miracle if I could walk one. I could do 500. I'm moving my hands around here. I've made almost a full cover in my upper body. I went back to school. I graduated. I got married. I'm sharing the story for an impact of others.

[00:31:29] This hasn't held me back, and I just want to let you know that I forgive you and I truly wish that you're doing well in your life. I'm doing well in mine. And I hope that the same is going for you. And I don't hold this all against you. I've really been victorious over this injury and what's happened to me.

[00:31:49] Kate: What would you like to hear from him?

[00:31:53] Robert: Like I said, it doesn't even matter what he would say to me because I've moved on. I think that for his own sake, it would be healthy for him to say those words, I'm sorry, to really just come to terms with that.

[00:32:11] But I wouldn't need an explanation. I wouldn't need any of that, oh, this is why I didn't say anything, yada yada, yada. I don't need any explanation or excuse. I think just I'm so happy for you, and I'm sorry. I think it's all really just about whatever he would need, is what I would want to hear. I just hope that he can also over overcome this as well.

[00:32:37] Kate: And we do wish him well because I can't imagine the effects that he's experienced on his body. Our secrets literally keep us sick. I even say that in the trailer to my show and keep us hiding and for some, keep us using drugs, alcohol, whatever we choose to numb ourselves. And I can't imagine the effects on his body keeping this in all this time.

[00:32:59] And so, yeah, we will pray for him because it's making me even feel nauseous thinking about the pain that he's caused himself, which is his responsibility. And so I wish him peace, and he's got a great role model here to help him with that. And I hope the universe sends him this episode when it comes out, or sees other work that you're doing and he can really learn from you. And we can all learn from you.

[00:33:26] So you did mention that you are able to walk and you were able to go to your graduation. I would love for you to talk about your recovery process and then where you are now and where you hope and you know-- we will hold space that you know-- you will get to.

[00:33:41] Robert: I know, I know. It is just been amazing. Because like I said, I couldn't move anything below like my collarbone when I first got hurt. And it didn't seem like things were going to get better, and I had that whole life threatening phase of the pneumonia, can't eat, all that bad stuff. And then it was about a month after my injury, I got transferred over to Craig Hospital, which specializes in spinal cord injury and traumatic brain injury.

[00:34:02] They're based just outside of Denver. I show up and I'm like, "What is this place?" The patients, they all have smiles on their faces and they're like, "Robert, welcome. You're going to love it here." And you want to grab them by the shoulders and shake them and be like, "What's going on? Are they drugging you? Blink twice if you need me to help you, get the [Bleep] out of here."

[00:34:21] But that was the reality of this place. The staff, they looked at all of us, and they just saw potential. It wasn't broken bodies. And I had my first conversation with my doctor and he said, "Robert, yes, what happened to you was terrible, but we don't know where you're going to progress from here. You might walk out of these doors one day, and you very well might not, but we're going to guarantee you that we will give you everything that modern science and medicine has to optimize your recovery. You have the full strength, support, and belief of this team."

[00:34:51] And they just gave me that hope. They gave me that little glimmer of a chance, and I went for it. It was eight to nine hours of very intense rehab. Every day I am just working as hard as I've ever worked in my life. And I went from no motion at all and eventually I could twitch a finger and twitch a toe. And then about a year later, after I got into that hospital, I walked out of the hospital doors in my walker.

[00:35:17] I went back to Cal, and then over there, my rugby coach, Coach Billups, who does our strength and conditioning, he is also our associate head coach of Cal Rugby, he's there in the gym with me, helping me work out, helping me walk, keeping on my goals. I graduated, and I walked across the stage, throwing my sheep skin in the air. 15,000 people just screaming their butts off while I was doing this.

[00:35:42] Stood for my wedding and our first dance and our vows. And just so many amazing moments. A lot of it is like those not so glorious moments that I continue to work through too. It's just that daily consistency. And I'll post them on my Instagram stories every day.

[00:36:01] So it's like, today is 2,972 days since my injury as we're recording this podcast. And I will make a video later today of just walking around my house, staying after it, really pushing on this goal still. And it's just amazing. It's incredible how well I'm doing now compared to where I started. It's a miracle.

[00:36:22] Kate: Congratulations. And it is a miracle because you are a miracle. I wish you could follow me around everywhere I go. And I told you the other day when we were talking because we all have our discomforts and things in life and navigating so much, and I do. I'm just so glad that I'm able to now bring you to mind when I'm going through anything, whether it's a celebration, but also a hard time. Or if I'm like, "I'm so uncomfortable with no air conditioning again." It sounds so silly.

[00:36:52] I feel so miserable, and I can't sleep, and I'm grumpy. And to just laugh about it, like what you just did. And I'm like, "You have legs and you can go walk around." And that inspire me. I'm like, "Why don't you go lift some weights and do extra Pilates and walk 10 extra miles because you can?"

[00:37:08] It's so much deeper than perspective. And your recovery has been so miraculous and extraordinary because you are so miraculous and extraordinary. And I think that's the message here, is that our results are a direct reflection of our character. And yes, sometimes crap happens and you have to overcome it, and that wasn't your fault.

[00:37:28] But then the gifts that are contained in that recovery and then what you're able to model for all of us for regardless of where we are in our journey or what we've been through, young, old, gay, straight, black, white, male, woman, man, woman. It's so heroic. And you deserve to be a household name and everybody to hear your story because the world would just be such a better place.

[00:37:50] Because all I ever hear is just there's so many excuses. You never made excuses. You didn't let bitterness or rage take over because we know that has debilitating effects on our bodies and mind. So it's so gorgeous. Something else that, I don't know if you were worried about-- I think every human is concerned about at some point is will I find the right partner for me? Will I be able to get married if I want that? I still I'm awaiting my perfect partner, and I'm much older than you. So tell me a little bit about your love story with Carson, right?

[00:38:31] Robert: That's right. Yeah.

[00:38:32] Kate: Carson. Yes. I just already adore her because, I don't know. I can imagine that some people, even if they loved you, that would be something they wouldn't want to take on, being married to a quadriplegic.

[00:38:44] Robert: I know that's something I was so worried about. That was one of the first things I was thinking when I was on that field and I had just broken my neck. I was like, "Who would possibly want to be with me?" Possibly. I go beyond that, and that first month ravaged my body.

[00:39:03] So I went from D1 athlete, really strong, tall dude, and in the gym every day, to where I'm looking in the mirror. I can see the ridges in my sternum, the atrophy in my body. And I'm like, "I don't even recognize myself anymore. This just isn't working.

[00:39:25] And so there's that exterior component. But then in terms of just the day-to-day challenges that I'm going through, I'm like-- so there's so many things I can't do, and I've had a lot of progress, but my life isn't normal. It's not anywhere close to where it was. There's a lot of sacrifices that I have to take on every day.

[00:39:45] And for me, it's not a choice. I take it on or I do nothing with my life. But for a life partner, that is a choice. And there are a lot of fish in the sea. There are options out there. Why would someone possibly take this on? Because I don't know if I would. And my wife did, and she does every single day and just completely changed the way that I view myself and my self-worth.

[00:40:12] And I remember the moment we met, I got invited to go to this Christian athlete group over at Cal. It's called Athletes in Action. I got invited by another friend, and the hills of Berkeley are just insane. They're crazy. There's just hills everywhere. So I needed help whenever I'd get around, and this girl said she'd help me. And then like, "Hey, my friend Carson will come here too."

[00:40:35] So I meet her there and I'm like, "Oh my gosh. She tall, gorgeous, everything that I'm looking for in someone. I'm going to shoot my shot. I'm going to try and do my thing here." And I thought it was a total swing and a miss. I thought it was like, Robert, move on. She is uninterested, dude.

[00:40:54] It was totally a misread by me. I just had my own insecurity issues at the time. Lucky for me, one of my best buddies was at the time dating one of Carson's best friends. And so they were talking about us and he's talking to me. He is like, "Dude, you're an idiot. She really likes you."

[00:41:14] So we went on this double date, and we totally hit it off. We went on our first date a week after that, and rest is history. We got married in November, 2023, but it just like when I look at big life changing things that have happened to me throughout these eight years, that is definitely the one on top.

[00:41:35] It just changed my mood, how I view myself, how I feel about how my life is going because I was able to really realize through her love and support that I am worthy of love. There's so many people who have supported me throughout these years, and I am so appreciative of that.

[00:41:56] But it's different than a romantic love, like a life partner. To really see that, I was worthy of that, that I was worthy of someone dedicating the rest of their life to me changed everything and showed me that what makes any of us worthy of love is not our appearances and not our accomplishments, the success that we've had of our lives.

[00:42:16] It's this inherent value that we all have within ourselves, and it just takes the right person to find that and really see that in us. So I am so lucky to have Carson in my life, and I'm a lot luckier than her. She is way cooler than me, so I feel so blessed to have her in my life. And she's changed me in a lot of ways, in the best ways.

[00:42:37] Kate: I think she is equally blessed and fortunate to be with someone as extraordinary as you. Like I said, you're so unreal. I just wish there were more of you in the world, but that's what makes you so unique and special and stand out. Did you ever talk to her about, do you have concerns being married to someone who's quadriplegic or my realities, or I may never walk?

[00:43:04] Obviously, you had a lot of these discussions, and for me it even just brings up insecurities, because we all have that thing. You even write about it in your work and talk about it in your work. We all are paralyzed in some way. We all let some paralysis hold us back. It doesn't have to be literal, like in your case.

[00:43:21] And especially, our romantic partners and spouses bring up our stuff, if you will, more than any one-- all of our insecurities, past and present. So what was that conversation like where-- yeah, it's hard to even ask the question deeper than that because I'm feeling uncomfortable even just asking you.

[00:43:42] Robert: Right. Yeah, it's such a good question. I've never actually been asked that before. It's awesome. So there wasn't this one sit down, this is the topic, this is what we're going to discuss kind of thing. And luckily Carson was already so familiar with what it was like to help and live with the person who has like a mobility impairment type of disability because she was a caretaker at Cal.

[00:44:04] Even beyond that, I was like, "This person is the one." Because she understood that already in a lot of ways and just the way that your life looks different from others. So that was huge. But then over time, of course, every disability is very unique and individualized.

[00:44:20] There's things that I go through that other people don't have to and things they do that I don't. And just over the dating period, we just encountered all of it, all these different challenges. Even just the regular emotional ones, when you lose grandparents and they pass away. You're leaning on each other for that. Difficulties that everybody goes through, or the pandemic. Things like that that can really strengthen a relationship.

[00:44:46] But we were also very intentional when we were engaged about making sure that all of our bases were covered. We would go to, I guess you would call it marriage counselors, people who were making sure that you're asking each other all the right questions and that there's no surprises. Once you've really done the deed and you're married, to make sure that you're ready for this and you're aligned.

[00:45:09] Like an engaged retreat that we went on as well that went through a lot of this stuff to make sure that we were aligned in those similar types of questions. And I think for us, there wasn't a lot of things that had come up for the first time in those periods, but it was really affirmational for both of us and just getting ready for this excitement of what's the rest of our lives together.

[00:45:27] So we took it as we went. And as things would come up, we can address them. And she never had a problem with anything that I've gone through. So she's amazing. She's incredible.

[00:45:40] Kate: I'm so happy for both of you. It really is goals. It's like hashtag goals. It's really extraordinary. And again, that you are both so wise at such a young age. I'm in Gen X, so Gen Z sometimes I'm like, it's just a whole different universe, and you are representing strong for Gen Z. They're lucky to have you.

[00:46:03] Robert: Represent. Love it.

[00:46:07] Kate: I think another question that might be uncomfortable for people to ask you, because they're probably used some more of you sharing your story, but day to day, listen, it's tough being a human, especially now. I feel bad for your generation and that you didn't get to experience the '80s and '90s.

[00:46:22] It was a golden era. The  '80s and '90s, the great music still lives on. I miss the  '80s and '90s often. I graduated from college without a cell phone. That's how old I am. So it was amazing though. It was amazing. But I imagine that people don't always ask you, so what's it like being quadriplegic?

[00:46:42] Again, being human is challenging enough. You have this whole other layer that I imagine people might feel bad about themselves almost for like, "Gosh, I think I'm having a hard time. I'm not dealing with this." But what is the day to day like? And you're so positive and so strong. But I don't know. I have a great life and I have many frustrations, so I'm just curious how you navigate it all.

[00:47:03] Robert: Yeah, yeah. I'll try to break it down in terms of the hard stuff and the positives. So there's a lot of hard stuff. And I think the hardest thing about this injury is that you never get a break. Never. There'll even be times when I'm having a very vivid dream and almost always I can walk in my dreams, actually.

[00:47:28] I can move around. And in my dreams I'm just, "Oh my gosh, I made it. I overcame all that and I can just stand up and I can run." Then I wake up and I'm like, "Oh no. That's not the case. This is very real." And it starts right away. I start up my morning and I have a lot of spasms, so my legs are shaking, my fingernails are digging into my palms.

[00:47:51] I get into my wheelchair and it's just like everything that you do throughout the day has more of a strain. So even though I can move my hands, I can move my arms, I really have to focus on it a lot more. It's like when you're flexing a muscle and you're really focusing on that muscle.

[00:48:07] It's that same mentality where a lot of times it doesn't just happen. I don't just grab a bottle. It's like you've just 10X'd the weight of that bottle. I really have to think about it more. So I can just have a mental toll on you. You can fatigue out faster when everything you're doing has just that much more intensity and intentionality to it. So a lot of my days, it's like I'm doing the same things just in a different way. I'm getting my hair all perfect. Making sure I have that nice part of the side.

[00:48:37] Kate: You're a Disney Prince. I expect nothing less.

[00:48:42] Robert: Totally, totally.

[00:48:45] Kate: My lips to God's ears. Actually, what a great Disney story you would be. You literally are, and we've never had a quadriplegic Disney prince or any prince out there. Ooh, I just felt that, movies, animation or otherwise. We need to get some movies and documentaries done on your life. Sorry. Continue. I'm like, "That is epic. Everyone would watch that."

[00:49:10] Robert: Totally. No, I know. That would be so much fun. I always tell people like, I'm saving the person who acts in my place as-- it's to got to be Channing Tatum or Brad Pitt. Channing's got to rip off his shirt, get the six pack going. That's me. Anyways, so back the--

[00:49:27] Kate: Channing Tatum would be perfect. Yeah. He's a great dancer too. So see, you won't even just walk again. You'll be like dancing magic--

[00:49:36] Robert: Yeah.

[00:49:37] Kate: Maybe not. You're married. But anyway, you know what I mean.

[00:49:40] Robert: Yeah. Break dancing, something like that, something good. Yeah, yeah, totally. So anyways, everything I'm doing, I'm doing the same stuff. It's harder, and there's complexities to all of it. So that's the hard parts of it. And even my workouts, I do them every day, but it probably goes out to five days a week. I have some rest days in there as well. It's not easy. It's not like I'm like, "Oh, joy. I get to like work as hard as I can to just do some laps around my house."

[00:50:12] It's not an easy thing to do, but I'm doing it because I know the progress that it's given me. I'm not going to work this hard for eight years and then just stop. But then really beyond that, what really keeps me going is people are counting on me. And if I were just to give up, imagine how much that would crush them.

[00:50:28] So it's not even an option. I have to share this story. I have to keep pushing. That's bridging us into the positives. The best parts of my day are when I get to post my workout videos, when I get to respond to DMs, see what other people are going through and how this is helping them. And get ready to give speeches and spread my book to more people. And all those things, to take what happened to me, which anybody would think would be the worst thing that could ever happen to me, breaking my neck, and I'm going to turn it into a gift.

[00:51:01] That's a gift that I can share with other people. Because breaking my neck took a lot away from me, but it gave me a lot too. It gave me a greater perspective. It gave me more strength and fortitude. Now, for the person listening to this, does that mean that I recommend someone go out there and break their neck so they can have this strength, perspective, and fortitude? Of course not.

[00:51:21] Lucky for you, you don't have to. What you do need to have is empathy, a really strong empathy connecting you to the struggles of others. If you have that outward-looking mindset and that strong internal empathy, then you can learn through those struggles as well and gain that strength and gratitude that other people have when they rise victoriously over a difficult situation.

[00:51:45] So that's just the happiest part of my day, when I can really feel that that came into someone's life, and it's inspired them not to just feel better, but to do better, to be more active in their life. It's the greatest gift.

[00:51:59] Kate: What is the outlook looking like in terms of fully walking again?

[00:52:05] Robert: Very good. The outlook is very good. So now I talk to my doctors, my physical therapists. They're trained to give the worst-case scenario at all points. They have to do that. And now when I talk to them, they're like, "Robert, you've had so much progress. You continue to progress. The work ethic is there. I see no reason why one day you won't be out of your wheelchair." It's going to happen today or tomorrow or the next day. It's going to take some time, but I really believe that that's going to happen, and that's just doing it the old fashioned way.

[00:52:38] There's a lot of medical advancement that's going on right now. If you've heard of Neuralink, that chip in the brain company that Elon's working with, one of their early goals is to cure a cervical spinal cord injury. So I certainly hold out hope that companies like that will continue to have progress and really fight for that cure of the spinal cord injury.

[00:53:01] But in the meantime, I'm pushing for it the old fashioned way. I'm going to keep my body very healthy. So if something does show up that's like a medical intervention that can help me, and my body can respond to it immediately and very, very well. But it's amazing just the prospects for the future now. It fills me with so much hope to keep my foot on the gas and keep going at this.

[00:53:23] Kate: Oh, I just can't wait for that moment. And in the meantime, you're doing so well. But that will be such an exciting feat that you will conquer and accomplish. I have no doubt. Because you're the walking miracle. And see, I'm even referring to you as a walking miracle, not just miracle. So there you have it.

[00:53:40] You are doing so much work in this space. I know you speak all around the country. I can't wait for everyone to know your name. And then you also have written a book, correct?

[00:53:49] Robert: Yeah, that's right. Paralyzed to Powerful. I got it hanging out over here behind me. I had so much fun with this book, and in a lot of ways it was a very cathartic process. I really tried to put the reader in that hospital room, in those really difficult moments, and my motto was no tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.

[00:54:08] I really went there personally to give that to someone else. And then just like, the contrast that it gives you from those really low moments to everything that's happening now with these really high moments have just been wonderful. So this book is part memoir. It's part of just my journey of overcoming quadriplegia these last eight years.

[00:54:28] And the other part is that self-help component. I asked that question, the first thing in my book. What paralyzes you? What's holding you back? And that can be grief, anxiety, burnout, hopelessness, fear. There's so many things that can paralyze us. I want a reader thinking about what are you going through in your life right now?

[00:54:49] Let's draw out inspiration from just this story. But each chapter talks about a tool that's helped me in overcoming this paralysis that I recommend other people use to overcome that mental or emotional paralysis that we all face uniquely in our lives. So it's just been the most wonderful thing to see messages from people who are really going through it right now and they're like, "I can't even tell you how much this helped me."

[00:55:13] Or they're looking to reach new heights, they're accomplishing really big goals, and they're like, "This really invigorated me and kept me pushing at this goal that I want to achieve in my life." So I love this book, and that book format allows you to go so much deeper.

[00:55:28] I did an audio book too, which I narrated myself, and I think that's always awesome when the author does it themselves. So I've loved it, Paralyzed to Powerful. It's been a really big milestone for me in my life.

[00:55:39] Kate: Congratulations, because writing a book is so much work.

[00:55:43] Robert: It's a lot.

[00:55:43] Kate: Author to author. And the audio book too. It's such a discipline devotion, and I think us athletes, for me, I'm so glad for my swimming career because that made me so disciplined to knock out my manuscript. And I'm sure for you too. We have just a little bit of different blood as athletes, especially rugby. I'm happy in my no contact sport. Again, we're in the water all the time. Too much chlorine probably cause damage.

[00:56:10] Robert: You're waking up at 5:00 AM every morning too, doing stuff.

[00:56:14] Kate: To jump in a cold pool. I know. It's insane. But like rugby, I'm like, "No one's tackling me." That was nice. But it is. It's so much work to write a book, Paralyzed to Powerful. I can't wait to read that. We're just meeting, so I haven't had a chance to read it yet. But I keep wait, especially after meeting you. So everyone please go and pick up a copy because it's the nonstop inspiration.

[00:56:36] And I think even just having it on our coffee table or by the bed. It's just that reminder of who you are and how powerful we are and really limitless regardless of what we go through. Or people literally try to knock us down or take us out. That we are more powerful than any of the circumstances, any force or weapon that tries to be formed against us, as you know, will not prosper.

[00:56:59] And so for me, it's so important that we read this book because you truly embody every word. It's not some vanity project to get more clients or make more money. It really is to help all of us heal and grow and evolve.

[00:57:14] Robert: Totally. Yeah, it's real. It's raw. And I think another thing about this whole story is like it's still happening. This isn't all just about things that are in my past. This is a journey that I'm still very much living. So I think that's important. And I think it's just a good boost to people's mental diet.

[00:57:31] I think it's good for us to be really intentional about our mental diet, about the things that we're allowing into our minds, those thoughts that we're really encouraging, that positivity that we need. I really want this book and just this message at large to be a really good boost to people's mental diet. We all need more of it.

[00:57:49] Kate: And even just again, reading about you and your story because I was having a moment last week. I woke up, which is so not like me. And I get what was happening given some circumstances, but I felt paralyzed by fear. And that's what I love about your story, is you don't have to be quadriplegic. You don't have to have a physical limitation.

[00:58:09] We are all, I see it every day with everyone, paralyzed by something. I think grief and fear are two of the big ones. And I feel like the world is just getting more terrifying in different ways, especially depending on where you live. And then we're grieving. I think we're grieving the way things used to be, or we're grieving maybe more youth in our life. We're grieving someone who has passed away. We're grieving the loss of a job or dog or family member or whatever.

[00:58:36] And so what is maybe a quick tip or two, you're such an expert in this, to maybe release some of our paralysis or to overcome it or just not let it take us out? I had a moment. It took me out, and you brought me back to life, so thank you.

[00:58:52] Robert: Yeah, yeah. So certainly the number one form of paralysis that I see is fear, and that's in a lot of different ways. That's fear of failure, fear of the unknown, fear that I won't reach my potential one day, fear that I'll let someone down. I think we all deal with that to a big extent. That, I would say, is probably the number one thing that really affected me too in this whole recovery journey, is fear, like, is this not going to get any better?

[00:59:18] Can I work as hard as I possibly can and it's just not going to turn out for me? That caused a lot of fear, and I think in that I had to just learn to be able to let go of those things that I can't control and focus on what I can. I think it comes back down to a lot of what we're choosing to give words to, those words that we're actually engaging in.

[00:59:40] If we're going to keep talking about all the things that are causing us this fear, it's just going to keep brewing. It's going to keep strengthening, and we're just going to get burned. But if we decide to let those things go to the side, just like I can't control that. I'm not going to talk about it.

[00:59:54] I'm going to try not to think about it as much as I can too. I'm going to spend that mental energy that I've just freed up to focusing on what I can actually control. So I think in the end of the day, where we really need to be honest with ourselves and hold ourselves accountable, it's not all about the results and the decisions that we made because we make the best decision with the information that we have at the time.

[01:00:17] It's all about our effort. And when I put my head on the pillow at the end of the night, I can sleep well if I knew I really controlled my effort. And I think about this a lot in my last chapter of the book, which is called True Success. Because I thought, I'm still in a wheelchair. By definition, I'm actually a quadriplegic.

[01:00:42] My goal on day one was to not need a wheelchair ever again. So that means I could be walking with a walker or crutches, a cane, nothing at all. I just want to stand up out of my wheelchair one day and never sit back down. I haven't achieved that goal. Statistics say very much so that I will never achieve that goal, that I will spend the rest of my life pushing at this, and it's just never got to happen.

[01:01:08] And I got to ask myself the question, does that mean that I failed? Does that mean that this injury got the best of me? And I think the answer is absolutely not because I controlled my effort throughout all this. But one layer further, I have joy my life, gratitude in my life, purpose in my life. It's because of those things that I've been successful throughout this injury that it doesn't matter whether I'm walking or not, those final outcomes.

[01:01:39] I controlled everything that I could control, but I just have this internal peace and joy in my life that I think like, that's the one thing we should never let pass this by. Because I learned through this injury, life is very fragile, and it's a gift. That's not reason to every time we go outside, wrap our bubble wrap on everywhere because something might happen.

[01:01:58] No, I think it's really just more reason to be grateful, have more joy for the things that we have in our lives right now. To not let normal days just pass us by, because a normal day is such a gift, such a blessing. So when we're going through that tough time, I think it's important let go of those things that you can control.

[01:02:16] Focus on what you can. You can control your effort. Try to cultivate that positivity, that gratitude, that purpose in your life. And you are going to be successful regardless of how the cards may fall.

[01:02:28] Kate: Hmm. And you are so loved. Do you feel that?

[01:02:31] Robert: Yes, yes. That's huge. If I was just like doing all this by myself, it would just be hardship that I go through, every little thing would just be more difficult. And I have such a great family. I have such great friends. I have my lovely wife and just this incredible community giving me that love and support. I'm so lucky to have that.

[01:02:52] But I've also been very intentional about it too. I try to really be that person that gives that positivity as well, where I'm not only receiving and accepting that love, but I'm giving it too. And I think that just strengthened those relationships even more. So that's another huge component.

[01:03:13] I say I a lot when I'm talking about this recovery journey and all that, but nothing important is accomplished alone. We just can't ever forget that. That it shouldn't be our goal to just take on our challenges, assume our burden on our shoulders, and march forward in silence. It's a strong thing to ask for help. You're always going to go further when you seek experts in your life that can help you get through a difficult moment. That love, that support is just so crucial to overcome big challenges.

[01:03:43] Kate: Yeah. And I think what's cool about you is I think of someone that I love, for instance. I think of a Taylor Swift who millions of people "love her." We don't actually know her, but we love her, for instance, because of more of what she does, not who she is. Although she is a lovely person and gives to so many charities, etc.

[01:04:05] But again, I don't know her personally. What's cool about you is I would tell her, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you got to meet Robert. I love Robert." And it's not because of what you do. It's not because of the songs you put on the radio that I sing to and love, or you give this to performance at a stadium. I love you because of who you are.

[01:04:23] And I think that's been so much of my journey is. And even on this show, of course, all of you do extraordinary things, and we'll get to the career accolades, awards, etc., but the emphasis is more on who you are. And for you, it's I love you because of who you are, and that's what I've been working on.

[01:04:38] The relationship with myself is loving me for who I am as a person, not what I'm achieving or not achieving, not how much money I'm making or not making, not how beautiful I look or don't look, things like that. And so for you, it's really is also that archetype of loving someone for who they are and their character, and then everything you emanate from there.

[01:04:57] And so you're just such a role model in all the right and profound ways that I just am so excited to see where you are in the next eight years and then the next eight years, because it's so extraordinary. When you do look back to eight years ago, and you've just recently had that eight-year anniversary, and where you are now, what's a big takeaway that you have on your journey thus far?

[01:05:22] Robert: I think it's so much just like that this is just the beginning. That there's so much still ahead. I wake up each day with just so much hope and so much optimism for the future. And I think that's something that I'm really proud of, is just that belief in something. I think we might not spend enough time really giving ourselves those affirmations and putting together a vision, thinking about what we really want to achieve in our lives and that plan of how to put it together.

[01:05:52] But I think like it all starts with just that the belief that you're going to do something. Why would we ever try to do something that we don't believe we're going to be able to accomplish? For me, it was really difficult to be able to cultivate that belief in the beginning when my doctor tells me I'm not going to walk again. I'll never move my hands.

[01:06:11] I'll be lucky if I can feed myself, if I even survive. But I still held onto it. And I think that's something that's really important that's fueled me throughout these last eight years. I really do believe that I'm going to walk again, and I'm going to get out of this wheelchair. And I believe that I'm going to be able to take this horrible injury and impact more lives than I could possibly even imagine.

[01:06:37] I believe in that so strong and I want that. I want that for myself. I want that for others. I have this one life. We all have one life, and I really want to make sure that I make the most of it. And I also make the most of those challenges that I've been through for my own good and mostly for the good of others.

[01:06:57] Kate: And I feel like you've also really released the timeline because that's something that I can get stuck on, is how hasn't it happened yet? And I truly believe it is going to happen, and things that I haven't even imagined great are going to happen for me. But I think sometimes we get so caught up on our timeline, and you're a man of big faith too. How can we release the timeline a bit? Because you could be frustrated like, okay, I made this progress, but why can't I walk yet fully?

[01:07:23] Robert: Right. Yeah. So that's really important. So I had to release that timeline really early on with this injury because it's so unpredictable. It's not like, "Hey, you just had ACL surgery. You'll be good to go in six to nine months, typical recovery window." With these recoveries of spinal cord injury, it's extremely unpredictable. So I just had to let go of that from the beginning, but I had hopes and dreams that I would be returning to school one year after my injury, just walking, going up and down stairs, never needing a wheelchair.

[01:07:59] And that didn't happen. I had to learn how to be able to adapt. And I think something that's helped me to be able to just keep going is I have this very big goal that I haven't put a timeline on because it's just so hard to tell when that actually could happen. But I try to have daily things that I can accomplish that gives me that sense of satisfaction.

[01:08:23] Like I'm moving. I'm going forward. Even though I haven't achieved like the grand vision, I'm making small wins every day. So that's simple things. I get up out of bed by 7:15 every morning. Something as simple as that. I wish I could say I got up at 5:30 and just got after it, but I need my beauty sleep, so I can't do that.

[01:08:44] Kate: Amen. You are Disney prince. We need our beauty sleep. I'm all about my sleep. I hear you.

[01:08:50] Robert: Totally, totally. But if I'm in bed on a weekday, after 7:15, it's like what am I doing? I need to get up and start getting after the day. It's like that's a small win that I can have. I have a goal to every day get on my feet for just some period of time.

[01:09:06] It can literally be three minutes, five minutes. Nothing big, but like I'm checking that box. It's helping me keep my body healthy. It's helping me move forward. So I think when we have those daily goals, it helps us to be able to like, you know what? I'm controlling what I can control. I'm getting my daily wins.

[01:09:25] Whatever happens in the grand scheme of things just happens. There's a lot of factors in there that I have no control over, but I'm doing what I can today, and I think that helps you release the time pressures that we put on ourselves with goals.

[01:09:38] Kate: Yeah, and I'm just hearing to be really present. And you even inspired me today to really enjoy and celebrate, as you would say, the normal days even more. And I think, I was just in Europe for a bit, and so you're out of town, out of country. I'm like, "Let me go to the opera. Let me do all these things." And I was doing all these things that I thought, you never do these things in your hometown, really.

[01:10:00] And you just said, "It's all about work or the gym or the same things." And so what you've inspired me to do is, even today I'm like, "I'm going to go explore, go for a walk, and find some new cafe, which is what I love about Europe, and just pretend I'm on vacation for the afternoon, or just something."

[01:10:16] Take a different route on the walk or call up a friend and just go do something, not because we don't have work to do or money to make or whatever. But you're really helping me dwell in those simple pleasures of life. And not to scare anybody, but I say it all the time, God willing, we all wake up tomorrow regardless of our age or health condition. Because you were a perfect champion and 20 years old.

[01:10:40] And so we never know what's going to happen. Even with me going to Europe for a long time. I see people in their 60s or 70s and I'm like, "I'm in my 40s, and I was getting tired." So I'm like, "I don't want to wait 20 more years. I want to go now while I can walk 10 miles a day."

[01:10:55] So you really do put everything into perspective. From Paralyzed to Powerful. Everybody, please check out this book. We're going to put it all on the show notes. Robert is also an incredible speaker, so a great person, as you can see, to hire for your event, and just a phenomenal human.

[01:11:11] I want to give you the final word here. I'm so lit up. I feel like I just got a gigantic hug and I took a bunch of supplements, and I also feel at peace. It's not that energy of like, yeah, I'm going to go crush my goals. I feel at peace. Thank you for that gift.

[01:11:28] Robert: That's good. I think that's the goal, that peace and gratitude and that joy. It's doesn't always have to be like this bursting thing, but that just contentment with our lives and how lucky we are to be alive right now and to just to have all the gifts that we have in our lives.

[01:11:46] I think the final word is I really want us to appreciate the little things in our lives, and I think that's so much of what you were talking about just now of like being able to appreciate simple joys that come your way every day. And I remember just moments, how happy I was when I could wiggle my toes for the first time. Grin, going ear to ear just because I can wiggle a toe.

[01:12:08] And it's obvious why I had that joy. It's because I lost that ability. And I lost a lot of things I started realizing just how much I took for granted. And there's this popular saying that you don't know what you have until you don't have it anymore. I think that's a horrible way to live.

[01:12:27] You got to think about it. Why should we wait to lose something before we start showing appreciation for it? We should be appreciating it while we have it right now. I think that takes a real good mental inventory to actually think of like, what are the things that I'm really grateful for in my life that I have right now?

[01:12:45] How can I use these things in my life? Looking outside yourself, the folks who don't have as much of you, and having that perspective to be like, man, there are millions of people in this world right now who would rather be in my situation than their own. That's perspective, and it really helps us to appreciate just how lucky and blessed we are in our lives, and just be able to appreciate those little things. I think that's so important.

[01:13:08] Kate: It's so important, and I appreciate a very big thing, which is meeting you and having this conversation. This has been one of the most fulfilling hours of my life, and I'm just so honored to be in connection with you and share your story and your message and your beautiful heart and face and hair with the world, and cannot wait to see what you do.

[01:13:31] I know you're going to go on and be a dad, God willing, again, and just do so many great things. And what a great dad you will be. I wish everyone could have you as a dad. And now at least more people can know about you and your beautiful story. It's such a gift, and I appreciate your time, your energy, your passion, and your character and integrity. Thank you so much.

[01:13:56] Robert: Oh my gosh, Kate, so much gratitude for you. I get so much out of this, sharing the story, and I couldn't do that if it weren't for people like you giving this space. So I have so much appreciation for just the gift that you've given me.

[01:14:09] Kate: Thank you so much, and keep inspiring. I'm so excited to read your book. I just got copies all around the house, so if I'm having a little grumpy moment, I'll be like, "Ooh." And it's like, what would Robert say? What would Robert do? And I'll get my act together. So thank you so much, and thank you for being here, everybody, especially to the end. We appreciate you. We'll see you next week right back here on Rawish. Bye, everybody.