Why Most People Quit Too Soon (and How to Keep Going) with Robert Hamilton Owens

[00:00:00] Robert: Embrace discipline in your life. Immature people are undisciplined people. When I started stacking up wins, the first Ironman I did is a dare. I did it on my honeymoon. I said, "You want a free trip to Hawaii? I'll just do this Ironman. I'll get people to pay for it, and then I'll spend two weeks. They'll be for free."

[00:00:15] We're the special ops of the military for that kind of community. When they're hurt, we're defense. And if you do it to get the people to say, "Good job." you're missing the mark.

[00:00:24] My testimony, my thing is that words from other people developed me and encouraged me when I didn't have it. I don't have faith in me, but I have faith in your words in me. If you believe that I can do it, I'm going to believe your belief over my unbelief. If you want something bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes for a season of time to live unbalanced and get that thing.

[00:00:49] Kate: Hey, there. Welcome back to Rawish with Kate Eckman. Very special episode for you here today. I like to talk about who people are and not get into all the what they do. But when I read my guest today, his bio, I thought, oh my gosh. So it's all in the show notes, but just a few things. Besides being the author of Beyond Average, besides being, arguably the fittest and most mentally tough 73-year-old in the world, he's also an Air Force para rescue man.

[00:01:19] I bet you don't even know what exactly that is. I didn't, but we're going to find out. It involves a lot of risk. He never met his birth parents and was a special needs child, but went on to be the most extraordinary athlete. And then even athletes like Tom Brady, ask him for his longevity advice.

[00:01:36] Incredible. You know what? I'm going to stop there. He is a father. He's trained with Olympic coaches. He's done so much, but most importantly, he's a really cool, nice guy. And so I'm so honored to introduce you to Robert Hamilton Owens. Robert, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:01:51] Robert: Hi, Kate. Nice to have you interviewing me, and it's good to be with you.

[00:01:54] Kate: It's so fun because I love people who make me feel like an underachiever because I feel like I just go, go, go. And I've been really reassessing how I define my worth instead of it being about all the accolades and awards and degrees and things like that. But your background was so fun and fascinating to learn about because you've done so much and you couldn't be just hanging out, not doing much right now, and enjoying your golden years.

[00:02:20] And even at 65 you were doing-- oh, I didn't even talk about that in the intro. You have completed 12 Iron Man triathlons. How could I leave that part out? And you're doing so in you're 60 still. Where does this drive come from? Why do you do it? Why does it mean so much? And how can we all do that version of it? I know we all don't want to do that, but our version of doing an Iron Man.

[00:02:44] Robert: It's interesting. I have had, for a long time, like Goggins, a thing inside me that says, "I wonder if." And that comes from rejection. That comes from failure. That comes from poor self-worth. That comes from being told that you're a mistake growing up. It comes from that place of insecurity where you're told you can't and don't try.

[00:03:05] You're screwed up. And then you have some breakout situations that says you can do something. You can do this, or you can do that. And like we were talking before the show started, Jon Urbanchek, who was the Olympic swim coach, he said, "Hey, Owens. You're an idiot." Because he couldn't say idiot.

[00:03:25] But he said, "Owens, you have so much more in you than you know, and I want to bring out in you that hard work beats better talent. So you're going to work hard and see that there's a champion inside of you." And I didn't learn to run till I was in sixth grade. And my mom was a UCLA grad, so she threw me in the water as a disabled kid with special needs stuff and couldn't run.

[00:03:48] So she put me in the water down here and he saw that and he said, "I'm going to do something with you." And when I finally got out of high school, he said, "You're a champion." And I was getting third places and second places because I wasn't against-- I swam against all the age group guys, Gary Hall Jr., all those days.

[00:04:08] And so I leaned into him, and I said, "You see that?" And he said, "Yeah, I see that in you." And I said, "If you see it in others--" Said the same thing. "If you see that in me when my head is full of snakes saying that I'm not really able to do much, I'm not smart. I'm not gifted like the other kids. I begin to believe."

[00:04:26] And so as I begin to believe, I begin to take on challenges that overwhelmed me, but people, especially men, encouraged me and said, "Hey, Owens, you could do this." And I'd say, "I can't do that." And they, "Oh yeah, you can. You're just lazy, and your mind's wrong. And if you get your mind right and you get focused on something, you'd be amazed at what you could do."

[00:04:46] And so my testimony, my thing is that words from other people developed me and encouraged me when I didn't have it. And that's why I think words are so important in shaping people's lives, because they box you in or they free you up. So that's where my life started.

[00:05:06] Kate: Thank you for sharing that. It reminds me of the movie about the Williams sisters, [Inaudible], I believe it is. And something that just brought me to tears in the movie is, which makes me cry now, when he just bubbled over Venus and Serena. To Serena, "You're going to be the greatest tennis player to ever play." And she went on and did that.

[00:05:28] And said to Venus, "You're going to be the first to win this Grand Slam title." And how they turned down that most lucrative deal from Reebok, because they're like, "I'm better than that. I'm worth more than that, because of how their father spoke over them in the hood with nothing."

[00:05:44] And what they became. And you really spoke to that. And I think that's so important. If you're a parent listening, please do the double down on this with your kids, spouse, best friends, colleagues. But what do you say about the self-talk? Because it ultimately does start with us.

[00:05:59] And thank God you had someone speaking this over you and what it did for you. But what about the self-talk? Because people can tell you you're the greatest thing since sliced cheese every day in the world. But if you don't believe it, it really won't align.

[00:06:14] Robert: I was told by a number of men in junior high in high school, and then afterwards, "Robert, you don't think good. You don't think right. You have limiting beliefs in your brain." And when you're playing tether ball by yourself in grammar school because you can't run and all the kids are playing, and then when you finally get to get some tennis shoes, you go down the field and no team wants to pick you, you just shrink inside like, I'm a loser.

[00:06:39] And when then people begin to speak into your life, like, "You got talent." And everything within you says they don't know what they're talking about. They don't know me. They don't know my story, because everybody's got a story. When I finally began to listen to them, they would say, "We want you to stop saying certain things. You say things that are wrong, and we don't want to hear it. And we'll penalize you if that talk comes out of your mouth again."

[00:07:02] You're going to get away from the negative and you're going to speak the positive. And you're going to speak the faith that can happen versus the reality of what you feel. And so little by little that began to change in me until the point when-- and again, I'm not a great athlete in the sense I was not the guy to be the all-star on the swim team. The guys that went to my high school on the Olympic team, those are the guys I'm competing against. I'm just a three-year swimmer.

[00:07:29] Kate: Aw.

[00:07:30] Robert: And so when these guys came up and said, "Hey, Robert. You have special ops in you." And I said, "I don't have special ops in me. I'm not a Navy SEAL candidate. I'm just a nice beach lifeguard that's getting by, living in the back of my van, surfing and skiing, getting a master's degree in irresponsibility."

[00:07:47] And they just said, "No. Listen, dude. You think bad still, and we need you to stop everything that you're doing. And if you want to change and get a grip on your life, six months, we want you to say these words, and we want you to let us do to you what we need to do to prepare you. And you'll be amazed at what you can do if you can get those snakes out of your head."

[00:08:08] And to me, they weren't snakes. They were my friends. They always lived in my head. I don't know where they came from. Poor self-worth and can't, couldn't, shouldn't. Don't try. Don't get your hopes up. Anyway, so I did what they said, and they caught me all the time. Say these things. "I'm hot. I'm good. I can do this, blah, blah, blah."

[00:08:27] And for those of you that don't know, pararescue is the Air Force equivalent of Navy  SEALs, but we're medical. So we do Navy SEAL training, but we add a year of medical to that. So we do rescue. So I was a ski patrolman, a lifeguard. If you want to do rescue, big time rescue, it's becoming a pararescueman.

[00:08:44] And you do ocean rescue, Arctic rescue, desert rescue, urban rescue, mountain rescue, tree rescue. Wherever a Navy SEAL or a pilot can get shot, you jump out of a plane with 45 and an Uzi. You got your Phenergan, warfarin, epinephrine. You got your needles. Your knives. You cut and you sew. And so you're the doc on the ground. And when they're hurt, we're defense.

[00:09:06] When they're in offense, get hurt, then they call us to come in and get them out. And we're the special ops of the military for that kind of community. When I was in, there was 200 of us and 3,000 Navy SEALs because we work by ourselves. We don't need a team. They drop us in. We do our job. Point is they said, "Come on in." And I said, "I don't have it."

[00:09:26] And they said, "You do have it." And I said, "I don't have faith in me, but I have faith in your words in me. If you believe that I can do it, I'm going to believe your belief over my unbelief." And I submitted to their authority and for six months worked out. When I went in the Air Force, we had a class of 150. We graduated 10, and they made me team leader of the 10.

[00:09:49] And they said, "You're hot." And everything within me said, "Uh-uh. I don't even know what I'm doing here. I'm just glad to still be named." Because I still had snakes in my head. And that's what I learned about developing a mind gym as much as a physical gym. So now when I train special ops candidates or college athletes, I say, "We're going to have a physical gym, but we're going to spend our time before the physical gym in a mind gym to get your mind right."

[00:10:16] And you need to grow your mind. We take kids now for nine months straight to reshape their minds so they can do the extraordinary things that they don't think they can do. And then they always say stuff like, "Really, I didn't know I could do that." I said, "We remember. We were the same as you. We didn't know we could do it either, but people changed the way we thought."

[00:10:35] Neuroplasticity in our brain rewired our brain to where we could go through those feelings, those limits. And that's what I love to do with college athletes, high school athletes. But I do it with adults too, like, how long have you been thinking like that? That's stupid. Since my mom said it or my dad said it, or since the divorce, or since the sickness. Or I was raped or abused or whatever. Well, then that's long gone. Let's rewire your mind to move forward instead of carrying the past with you and it limiting your life.

[00:11:04] Kate: Do you think some of these snakes in your head came from the fact that you did not grow up with your birth parents, and what meaning you made of that? Can you talk to us about that? Because all of us had childhood trauma, whether we had a seemingly great childhood or our parents weren't there for whatever reason. I just can't help but see the correlation or just how you were deeply or not deeply impacted by not knowing your birth parents and then being raised by a judge and having special needs. I'd love to hear how that impacted you.

[00:11:38] Robert: Yeah. What I talk to folks about is that when you're born, this melon is pretty empty. The top of your head, let's say, is a vacant lot, and there's not a lot of thoughts in there or concepts. You're brand new. You pop. Boop, here I am. And then culture begins to come live in your head.

[00:11:56] The things that people say take residence. So they're not your thoughts. They're thoughts that people have placed in your head, and you carry them around in your head in this vacant lot and they begin to grow like weeds. And you think it's just you thinking, and it's not you. You're rethinking the thoughts that they stuck in your head.

[00:12:15] So for me, I had a kid in third grade who was my best friend come up and say, "Don't you know you're a mistake. Your parents didn't want you." I didn't have a clue. And so I rode my bicycle home and said, "Hey, am I a mistake mom?" And she said, "Who told you that?" And I said, "Terry." And Terry's my parents' best friends-- his kid, their kid.

[00:12:36] "Terry told you that?" "Yeah." My mom said, "You go get on your bike, go to Terry's house, and say, "My parents didn't get stuck with me. My parents chose me. Your parents got stuck with you." But that concept of being unwanted or a mistake, I carried that. Then I have these bad feet, and I couldn't run till sixth grade.

[00:12:56] That was, you're a loser. You're less than. You can't. And all that stuff is subconscious, and it lives inside this brain, takes root, and you then say, "Well, where are my parents?" Or, "What happened to my parents?" And I'd say to my mom, "What do you think happened? Why'd they get rid of me?" "We don't know, but we love you, and we're glad you're ours."

[00:13:15] So many kids have the issue of what happened to me or why did this happen to me? Or what's going on? And you either work through that and get clean and get free from it, or it'll haunt you and take away yourself worth and your self-value that, especially for girls, why do my dad not want me?

[00:13:33] And so I'm going to find some man that wants me because my dad never wanted me. So you have all that stuff, and I had to deal with that well into my 30s and 40s of I would have success, but in the back of my head was always this thing. You're really not first-class citizen. You're a second class, you're a leftover Wanna-Be in a baby orphanage. And you need to work through that and have someone help you process that; lest they rob and steal from you your future.

[00:14:02] Kate: Yeah. What would you say to young kids and even those of us in our 40s, 50s, 60s, how we can raise our self-esteem and our self-worth and eliminate this negative self-talk? Or I think we think of that one comment that somebody said when we were in third grade or something mom or dad said to us, not meaning anything bad by it even. Kids can be so cruel in school, but how do we improve our self-esteem in a really practical way?

[00:14:33] Robert: Honestly, you have somebody who's capable help you process your stuff. And many people don't have the humility to go for help, and they just suck it up. They make everybody miserable because they're miserable. Or they say stuff. Hurt people hurt people.

[00:14:51] And so you either look in the mirror and say, "I'm not right. I need to fix this." Or you go out and bleed on people the rest of your life your wounds. And I was fortunate to run into people say, "We're going to help you process and work through this as best you can." Junior high, as best you scan. High school, after high school, in the military, after the military.

[00:15:15] I would talk and say to folks, "How do you process your stuff? How do you work on your issues?" I know. You don't have any. You laugh because everybody's got Issues. And then I became a pastor. And when I became a pastor, senior pastor for 25 years, I would listen to all these people with all this stuff-- burn victims and rape victims and drug addict, this and that.

[00:15:43] And I'd say, "How can you carry that pain with you? How can you carry those things? You need to work on getting free?" And some make great progress, and some said, "No, I don't want to work on my stuff like that." And I'd say, "Okay, then you have your own jail cell that you're living in, that you're carrying around with you everywhere you go. And that's what you want to do, knock yourself out."

[00:16:04] But a lot of the reason people do drugs is pain. And so how's that working for you? And you talk to them. We oftentimes want to help people more than they want to be helped, and we want to help people, but they don't want the pain, mental, emotional, relational, social, of working on their stuff. They'd rather hide from it.

[00:16:27] Kate: I have to pause you for a second because I just got full body chills, and you're speaking my language. And I'm just pretending we're at a coffee shop and no one's ever going to see this. But that's why I love this show because that's what it is. I've been working through this. I'm on a better place than I was even a week ago.

[00:16:43] But I would love your insight because you sound like you're like me and we want to help everybody, and we've worked and we've improved and so we want this gift for everyone. Something that came to me recently, Robert, was that I cannot want healing, for instance, joy, success, good relationships for people more than they want it for themselves.

[00:17:03] How do we not only release that wanting to help and save everybody, especially those who do not want to be helped or saved and don't want to go to therapy or get a coach or do the daunting but rewarding work that you and I have done? How do you help those of us who-- because you're like me. We want to help and save everybody, and we can't. And then there's a lot of resentment on both parties, both the person wanting and trying to help and the person who's resistant to the help.

[00:17:29] Robert: You have to do the work where you say, "What is happening in their life?" And if they don't want to be helped or healed as much as you do, then you say, "As much as I want to help you, you don't really want my help. It bugs you, bothers you. It seems intrusive. So I'm just going to back off and let you be who you are and suffer until you get it together." I'll give you an example. I have a son. He was 6'5, 235, got scholarships in football to Oklahoma, Nebraska, and Florida State. He lost it all to drugs.

[00:18:04] Kate: Oh.

[00:18:06] Robert: And so he comes down and gets another DUI in Orange County. He was angry. He was angry at his ROTC coach in high school. He was angry at his football coach in high school. He lived in anger, and that anger got to him. He gets thrown in jail down here on his third misdemeanor account, and he says to me, "Dad, are you going to get me out of jail?"

[00:18:29] And I said, "No. You can live there with all your new friends. Have a great life. You deserve to be there. You're a mess. You're screwed up, and you know better. And I love you, but you're a bad person on the streets, and I don't even like you when I'm around. You have time for your attitude, so go suck it up and have a nice time in jail."

[00:18:49] Anyway, he wrote me at the end of the first month, he said, "Hey, dad. Come get me out of jail. You love me. Well, get me out of jail." I said, "No, live there. You worked hard to get there. Stay there." And he would say, "Okay." Second month, third month, fourth month. Fifth month, "Dad, will you please get me out of jail? Get me a lawyer. Get me out." I said, "No."

[00:19:11] What I was doing, I was waiting for him to leak some brokenness. It's not the world's fault. It's my fault. You can't blame your coach, your principal, the cops, the authority, your boss. You can't blame everybody for what's going on inside of you. They may trigger it. It's not what happens to you. It's what happens in you. And so on the sixth month, he sent me a 3 by 5 card and he said, "Dad, I'm screwed up."

[00:19:40] And I went, "Whoa." First time in five years. "Tell me how you're screwed up." And you said, "Dad, I'm screwed up, and I know I need help." And I said, "I can give you 21 ways you're screwed up. Why don't you tell me those 21 ways so I don't have to tell you?" And he wrote me back, said, "Dad, this is why I'm messed up, messed up, messed up, messed up, messed up."

[00:20:02] And I said, "So what do you want?" Under the six-month in jail, he said, "You get me out, and I'll go into AA and I'll go into a program and I'll work on my stuff." And I said, "What stuff specifically?" And he said, "I'll go work on this anger, and I'll go and work this violence and this drug thing. I'll go."

[00:20:22] And I said, "Are you still a liar like you've been for the last five years? Are you just manipulating me?" And he said, "No, I'm telling you the truth." I said, "I don't know, but I'll give you one chance. I'll go get his lawyer and I'll get you out of jail." So I got him out of jail, and I looked at him, I said, "Are you going to deal now, or are you going to lie?"

[00:20:39] He said, "I'm going to the program." So he went in the program. He did the program. Today he's married, and he is a pilot. He went back to college, and he got his degree, and he is got a kid and life turned out. But he had to spend the time for five years breathing in that breathalyzer and going those AA meetings for three days, four days a week, giving him time to process the snakes in his head for giving the football coach, for giving the ROTC coach, for not doing this and that, blah, blah, blah.

[00:21:09] And he wanted it. I wanted to help him all the time, but he wasn't ready. And we try to help people who aren't ready, like, have you hit rock bottom yet? I don't know. You've been through three marriages. How about that fourth one? Huh? You just say to folks, "I think you're a liar. I like you. I'm for you, but I can't afford to help you because you don't want a bad enough."

[00:21:33] And we fix people's fixes when they shouldn't be fixed, because we're merciful at the wrong time. But when they finally say, "I'm in a learning curve now, then you go, "Really? Tell me about it." And then you begin to help and see if they really are.

[00:21:49] And they oftentimes become wonderful, and they work through their stuff, and they grow. But we want to help folks, and they don't want it as bad as we want to help them. And there's a process, and I'm always getting in the way of trying to help people when it's not ready yet.

[00:22:02] Kate: I've been interviewing people for 22 years, and I've never heard a story like that and a parent exercising his love in that way, I will say. And the result, and that we got to see what loving someone, your child of all people, loving someone in that way and what it did for them. Because what do most people do?

[00:22:26] And listen, I'm not a parent. I think it's the hardest job in the world. I'm not telling people what to do, but 99% of parents would've got them out immediately, would've done all those things. Would've done everything that you didn't do. And I applaud your bravery and your strength.

[00:22:42] So all of your background really came in handy as a parent. And just the result that you got from that. And it didn't even take that long, five, six months, and the revelations that your son had. And for me, I just want to give him a hug too and say thank you for asking for help and admitting that you have a problem, that it's unmanageable and you need professional help. So what is your relationship like with him now, and do you help other parents navigate these same sort of challenges?

[00:23:14] Robert: Yeah, I coach. And they say, "Are you a life skills coach? Are you a military coach? Are you an endurance coach?" A little bit of everything. I work with a lot of people with different issues, and my relationship with him is great. He kisses me on my cheek and hugs me, and we talk a lot. So it just takes time and things can turn around.

[00:23:35] I had a television program on FOX for 25 years, and that television program went into five different prisons. And so I did prison and jail work, and I'd go into the guys and say, "How screwed up are you?" I'd say, "Who'd you shoot? You're murder one. Who'd you kill?" And they'd look at me and say, "Ah, I shot him, or I shot--" What for?

[00:23:57] And we'd just talk. And I'd say, "So what are you doing now?" I got life without, or I got two more years to do. And I just talk to guys and say, "Are you ready to get clean? How long do you want to be a meth head? How long has that anger issue going to control your life?"

[00:24:14] So whether it's little athletes in junior high or high school, you talk to adults, it's pretty much the same. And a parent has to learn to read the tea leaves versus just hopping in with the emotion and saying, "Oh, I'll rescue." Or, "I'll make a ride." Or, "I don't know what's going on."

[00:24:29] If you learn to study this thing, you can figure out that it's pretty simple, that people will do what they want to do, and they'll let you know what they want to do. And you don't need to get in the way because you probably can't convince someone to not do what they want to do. But when they want to change, they'll let you know that too.

[00:24:45] Kate: How did you manage your emotions around-- what's coming up for me is. You technically allowed your kid to suffer because it's the same as if your kid's like, "I need some money for this." Or, "I need this." And you say no, for whatever reason. You don't want your kid homeless on the street. I think yours, it's different because he could have killed someone, including himself. And so how did you manage your emotions having this child in jail and then also having to say no to him?

[00:25:13] Robert: You learn to not say anything, and you learn to process and take long walks. My knee jerk reaction is to get involved and be people problem solver. And I learned long ago that easy decisions you make in five, 10 minutes or an hour. The hard decisions, you take some time and process and sleep and wake up and sleep and be bugged by it, think about it, lose sleep over it.

[00:25:38] And pretty soon that ball that you turn while the snowflakes fall down, pretty soon all that stuff settles and you get it. But you can make a decision too soon, or the system can force you to make a decision too soon. And you need to be aware of that in you and sometimes go to somebody else to say, "This is my situation. You've been through it, maybe. How would you handle this? Give me some insight."

[00:26:02] I went to different men for different kinds of challenges in my life, and my church grew to 3,000 people. And I had rapists, wannabe rehabbing. I had murderers, drug addicts. I had all kinds of stuff, and I didn't know how to deal with any of it. And so I went to folks, and I said, "You're an expert. Can you please help me? Help me process this new situation." And over time, not the beginning, you begin to figure out more and more and wisdom begins to come versus just knowledge.

[00:26:32] Kate: I'm just taking all of this in because it's rare that my mind is blown in a way where I just feel it in every cell of my body. And it's because you're doing something out of the norm that I wish wasn't out of the norm. And it does take a lot of courage, which really is the story of your life.

[00:26:47] And even I never have had so many notes here in terms of somebody's background and unique challenges that happened routinely, and they were pretty unprecedented. But then that really sets you up to be able to help people in such a meaningful way and help them have more grit. I'm even trying to think there's so many different directions I could go.

[00:27:07] I want to ask you about Tom Brady. I want to ask you about these Ironman. So how does one go about having the desire to even do one Ironman, which my cousin did one and he is throwing up so much at the end. I don't know how anyone does all of that. But that you've done 12. That you wanted to do it, that you could do it, that you did do it. Where did that desire come from?

[00:27:30] Robert: I like a good dare. I love it when people say, you can't. Don't show up. Don't you know how old you are? Don't you know this or that? Get over yourself. I just love people putting limits on me. And I did my first Ironman because when I got out of military, it was the beginning of Ironman. And Sports Illustrated ran an article that said it was the toughest race of the world and only crazy people do it.

[00:27:56] And I read it, and I said, "I could do that because I'd been through pararescue training." And I was a swimmer. And I was a beach lifeguard. And so anybody can ride a bike and anybody can run, but Honolulu rough water swim. So when I read that, I showed it to all these guys in college in my dorm, and they all went, "That's stupid." I said, "Oh no, that's doable."

[00:28:23] Anyway, so I went over. I got some sponsors who paid money because they said I couldn't do it. They wanted to give me money to go fail. No, you can't do it, so we'll pay your way over there just to have you humbled. And so I rented a bicycle from a Schwinn factory. I never rode the bike before.

[00:28:41] Anyway, I did it. And what happened was that for the listener, once you start getting wins in life, once you start overcoming, you embrace suffering. As Goggins says, "Embrace the suck. Miserable won't kill you. It just makes you miserable. Make it your friend so it doesn't overwhelm you."

[00:29:02] Once you begin to get wins at your life, one less donut, one less cigarette, one less outburst of anger like you usually do, when you start learning how to get wins, those wins build momentum. So my book, Beyond Average, was my life with no wins and then my life after the wins begin to come starting with pararescue. Like from, I don't think I can qualify to being the team leader of the guys that are left. That rocked me. I don't know how that happened. You must be a stud all the time. I've never been a winning athlete. I just worked hard. Get ready.

[00:29:41] When I started stacking up wins, the first Ironman I did is a dare. I did it on my honeymoon. I said, "You want a free trip to Hawaii? I'll just do this Ironman. I'll get people to pay for it, and then I'll spend two weeks. They'll be for free." She didn't know she was marrying an entrepreneur. And so I said, "Lay bets I can't do it." Back then there was 14 people that never done it, and they all put their money down. There should have been the gambling back then.

[00:30:08] And then I got a free honeymoon out of the deal. Anyway, that began to do wins. I didn't do an Ironman from 29 to 50. I didn't do any. I did. Been there, done that. I did local stuff, but I like staying in shape. At 50, my son said to me, "God, dad. You're half dead. You're a half century old. You're five decades."

[00:30:25] And he was that same kid that went to jail. He had a mouth. And so I said, "Who do you think you're talking to, stud?" And he said, "You're 50, dad." So I said, "I'm going to make an Ironman comeback, and you're going to sit at the finish line. And so is your sisters, and so are your brothers. And we'll see who's old and decrepit and half dead."

[00:30:46] With glee in my heart, I went and started training because I knew how to train, and I just trained like a pararescue guy. I didn't train like an Ironman. I'm not a triathlete, but I can do triathlons. There's a difference. Some guys are really triathletes. I'm a wannabe. One day I can swim, bike, and run, but that's not who I am.

[00:31:02] Anyway, I took them to Florida. They all sat there, and they watched this thing, and they had to write papers to their teachers because they were out of school on what they saw. And I saw people crawling across the finish line, people crapping in their pants, all the things you see at the end of an Ironman.

[00:31:16] And I come through that thing, and I looked at my kids. And actually, I grabbed three of them out of the stands and ran across the finish line with me. And I got pictures of my little kids. They're all in their 30s and 40s now. And I just said, "Here's another win in the game for me at 50."

[00:31:29] And then I saw that's fun to do. And so I just started doing them every year after that, just for the heck of it, just to see if I could do South Africa or Australia or Mexico, wherever it was. Just find someplace that was a beach course, non wetsuit. So I'd go and do those things, and I just figured them out.

[00:31:49] It's not that I was a hot athlete. It was that once you learn to do stuff, it gets easier. And the first time you do anything, it's really, really hard. And that's where you make your first mistakes. And as those wins begin to pile up emotionally, mentally, I went, there's a lot of things still at my age that I can still do.

[00:32:07] I wonder what I'm capable of. Not, I'm this age, but I wonder at this age, what I'm capable of. And most people, many people don't think on, wow, I wonder if I'm capable. They think, you don't understand. My diabetes. I'm overweight. I haven't worked out in years. This or that. You don't understand? I haven't done that.

[00:32:24] Just took a call before this podcast. Some guy calling me from Detroit. "Hey Robert. Will you help me? I saw you on one of your podcast things. You said call. I'm calling. I want to do this 50-hour nonstop thing, Navy SEAL thing. Can we talk?" They call me from all over the place. I say, "There's a lot more in you than you know, but you got to be smart, and you got to be mentored. You got to show humility, so you don't make all the mistakes yourself."

[00:32:46] And as that began to pile up, my life is one of gaining confidence, not that I'm hot. I just have done a done stuff long enough that I'll find a way to win. So rowing a boat across the Atlantic, people said, "You can't do that." I'm the oldest American endeavor row boat across the Atlantic. And they said, "You're too old. You can't do that." I said, "I know. I know. I got it."

[00:33:06] And so you figure it out, you go do it. And they go, "That's amazing." It's really not. All you have to do is figure it out and train right. I know you want to ask something. You just gain wins. That's what you do. You gain wins, but you have to suffer. You have to suffer through not knowing what you're doing and learning to know what to do and keep staying in the game and suffering, and that suffering becomes your friend, and all of a sudden, it's not that big of a deal.

[00:33:31] Kate: I think one of your gifts that's rare, because it's genuine-- there's a lot of faking it till you make it happening, and we try to emulate what is your default setting, which is, it's a game for you. I was cracking up when you said, like a little kid, "Oh, I love a good dare." And it's not a good dare, like, I dare you to go talk to that hot girl over there, and you're 10 years old at school. It's, I dare you to do an Ironman.

[00:33:54] And that you just take something like that on and that you're giddy and gleeful about people not believing in you. And this is such a good message for entrepreneurs because something I've learned as an entrepreneur is you let a clap and clap loudly for yourself. And sometimes you are the only one clapping. It's this big auditorium with one clap, and it's coming from you.

[00:34:17] And I've had time, it's like, why aren't other people clapping? Even my family, even my "friends" or fake friends, or these people like me. They're not even clapping for whatever reason. And not only were you not getting any clapping. You were getting jeered and the boos, and you laughed about it, and then did it anyway.

[00:34:35] So I'd love some insight on that, how we can take whatever negativity, if you will, is thrown at us. Or I have been underestimated my whole life, and now I love it because I laugh all the way to the bank or all the way to this. And people then get even more upset that you found success despite it.

[00:34:54] Robert: Sometimes you got to be your best friend. Sometimes you got to be the one that believes in you when nobody else knows what to do with you. I did the 777, seven marathons, seven days, seven continents. And there was nobody at the finish line. Nobody. So when you're talking about going across the finish line, where's the crowd and the cheers, the stadium pool? There's no one there.

[00:35:14] There's a timer going. Good job, Robert. Here's your time. The hotel's down there, and you walk away. Seven straight times. No one's there to say, "Atta boy. You're hot. Good job." There's no one. And you have to go through the finish line and go like this, "You did a good job, Robert. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Thank you very much." And you talk to yourself because no one else is going to say, good job. And if you do it to get the people to say good job, you're missing the mark.

[00:35:42] Kate: Whoa, I love that.

[00:35:43] Robert: Because it's in the journey. It's not attaining the goal. It's the journey of the loneliness of you wrestling with you and growing up and taking yourself on and wrestling with yourself, which most people don't want to do. They drug and alcohol themselves and stay busy and party stuff, saying, I don't have to think.

[00:36:01] But when you focus on, I need to take myself on as a project, then when you get through the end, you clap yourself because that's over the seven months of getting ready. That's just not what running through the Antarctica 20 below zero or something. It's that thing that people don't want to do, which is wrestle with themselves and become better and turn your weaknesses into strengths and things. You can go, "I've learned so much by taking myself on."

[00:36:25] Kate: Wow. So you think then the best way to inspire others, to have your spirit of excellence and adventure and courage is to just lead by example. Don't even say anything to them.

[00:36:36] Robert: They don't get it. Like, why aren't you drinking? I don't know. I stopped drinking at 20, and I had my first glass of wine in Cancun with my wife on a vacation, I think when I was 45. And they said, "Why don't you drink?" I don't know. It doesn't fit in my lifestyle. It's not going to help me any-- plus, I had lots of alcoholics in my church, and I didn't want to drink and stumble them.

[00:36:58] So I said, "I'm going to be with you guys and hang out and help you." You have to be your own best friend. You have to get used to being alone. And most people don't want to be alone. They want to be celebrated and understood and told how hot they are and how pretty, and how handsome they are. If you need people to validate you, you're in trouble.

[00:37:18] Kate: You are speaking my language. You're speaking my season. I'm crying and laughing so hard. I'm crying. I'm like that laughing tears emoji on our cell phones because this has been the season of my life. And I think I'm letting go of-- you know, when you find the best product ever and you want to tell everybody about it?

[00:37:37] And so I'm the best product ever. You're the best product ever. This work that we're doing and how you transform. So you want to tell everybody about it. And I'm learning, it's pretty obvious, but a lot of people don't care about even the product of them. They'll go buy the iPhone or buy the whatever, but I think I'm just, Robert, a little-- it hurts my heart. And I did this show as a way to ease that pain.

[00:38:02] I'm saddened that people don't want to be their own best friend or take on the project of themselves and do exactly what we're talking about right here. Because look at this light that you've had. And I just think of the gifts that it's brought me doing this work, even though it's been painful often. But just having to release that and expectations.

[00:38:22] Robert: Here's something. People have a people addiction. People need people to affirm them. Looking good. Nice dress. Nice car. Nice this. Why? Because people want affirmation. And that affirmation is addiction because we will do things we shouldn't do to get people to tell us how hot we are or how good we are or how steadily or how smart, or whatever it is.

[00:38:45] And once you know that you're not living your life for yourself, you're living your life for somebody else's approval, then you can begin to do the separation to become self-sufficient, where it's really nice if they say something nice, but if they don't, it's not going to rock your world. Because I'm not living for your affirmation.

[00:39:02] I'm living for my self-growth and my maturity. And so I look at people all the time and say, what happens if no one ever says you're hot or great, or it's a great podcast or so? Can you handle that? Well, no, my reputation or my self-worth and my image is based upon people giving me all that acclaim.

[00:39:20] It's all okay. Unless it's an addiction that's driving you unhealthfully. So I don't expect anybody to say anything to me. If they do, that's great. But I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it for, I have a challenge inside that God gives me a car. And if I put gas in it and change the oil, rotate the tires, this car will run pretty well. And I can do a lot of things with it if I don't screw it up.

[00:39:47] And so I have fun then when people say, "What about this?" I never thought of it like this. You want to do a podcast? Go do a podcast. But do it for the right reason. And so it's not weighing heavily on me about my self-worth. It's not my self-worth. It's what I do. It's not who I am. And most people, it's what I do and it's what I am. Are you a human doing or a human being?

[00:40:08] And usually women are human beings and men are human doings. Hi, what's your name? Shake hands. What do you do? And we have a pecking order on what a guy does from a plumber to the president. And we give them some-- we go to a bar. This replace. What do you do? One dog goes over and pees on a tree and the other dog goes and smells it and pees on top of it.

[00:40:28] That's how men are. Women, they usually are pretty nice, and they say nice things. I really like your hair. I really like your dress or this or that. They don't say, what do you do? And so when we learn that we're human beings, not human doings, we have value, not what we do alone, but who we are, we get freed up. And most of the listeners out there, listen to this and go, "Wow, that's an interesting concept."

[00:40:50] And I've been working on that concept for 40 years inside of me. I wasn't always like this. I wanted validation because I was screwed up as a kid. So your listeners are smart, and they know you're doing a great job, and they know your heart and they know that it's fun listening to you. And I'm glad that they're listening, and I'm looking forward to the comments that you get back from them about this weird conversation you had that's gone all over the place.

[00:41:13] Kate: Oh, I love it, because you're so unique and it's so refreshing. And I just want to have these conversations all the time, which explains why I've spent a little more time in hermit mode and alone, because it's either this or-- I can't do the superficial conversations anymore. And if people ask me what I do, you know what I say? I say, "I help people ask better questions."

[00:41:37] Come on, we got to do better. Let's connect. I don't even think they're interested in what I do. They want to size you up or they think you look like so and so from such and such, and they want to see, should I be threatened and intimidated and feel inferior in your presence, or should I feel superior in your presence.

[00:41:53] So it's just such a load of craft. So when we can just connect like this, Robert, human to human, and learn from one another-- I'm an expert in my own right and you are too. But everyone has something to teach us if we will just ask the right questions and dare to listen and not pretend that we know it all because none of us do.

[00:42:15] One more tidbit there about the validation piece because that is a journey, and we are trained and ingrained to want and meet and be addicted to the validation. And sometimes I say, "We need people to like and validate us." Because a lot of people like you, you get paid a lot of money on your TV show or your product or whatever.

[00:42:33] You need a lot of people to like and validate you so that you can negotiate and get a better deal and sell more books. So we understand that concept of it. But I'm learning, when I really just fine tune my instrument, the success comes. The money comes. I don't have to try so hard. The right partner's, money, romance, it's just aligned. Is that what you believe, or how do you put a little nail in the validation topic there?

[00:43:00] Robert: It's always a wrestling, all your life, the balance of, I'm doing this because it's right and it's good, and I'm in my sweet spot, and when I do this, people know that I'm in my best place. Two, I really need them to tell me that I'm doing a really good job. And I really hope that that person specifically will say that to me.

[00:43:20] And so all your life, every decade is different-- talking as a grandparent. Every decade, your 20s, your 30, your 40s, your 50s, the need for different types of validation is always there. And it's something that you wrestle with. And you just have to find out the balance that works for you.

[00:43:38] But you know you're sideways when you break a sweat, when you're around somebody, hoping that they really tell you that you're hot. Because if you don't get it, you, oh. But why do I need that? Well, because I just do. How am I going to function when it doesn't happen? And you wrestle through that.

[00:43:57] I'm in my 70s, and to some degree, I don't really give a rip about much. I've been told I can't, could, shouldn't a lot, and I'm an entrepreneur, so that feeds right into that thing of, really? I'm going to find a way to win and show you. And so you just find a balance for what works for you.

[00:44:18] But you'll feel that when you're with people that thing will rise up and they'll say, "How you doing?" And you just say, "I can't tell you what I'm thinking, but I'm wrestling with all these feelings and these thoughts inside." And they won't get it because they're not wired to get it.

[00:44:32] But it's something that you could be around certain people and talk about, and they'll get and understand what you're thinking also. So it's always different. It's always there. You never get through it, but you can always keep it in its place and work on it.

[00:44:45] Kate: I love that. I'd love for you to share one of your favorite lessons or takeaways from your book, Beyond Average, and we'll put it in a show notes so everyone can order it and take a piece of your wisdom with them everywhere they go, because these little nuggets that you just delivered throughout are so meaningful.

[00:45:02] Again, I've talked to a lot of people, and certain things you've said have just landed in a different way where I'm having all sorts of physical and emotional reactions, which I love. My friends always talk about my facial expressions on my show, but I'm so in it, and I'm so committed.

[00:45:18] And I love my guests so much. You just light up my life. You're better than money for me. You're my life force, which that's what I love my nickname for you, a force of nature. What is something, and I know there's so many, but something that comes to mind right now, I think based on our conversation that could really help people from your book, Beyond Average?

[00:45:42] Robert: The title is that there's more than one person living inside of you. There's the person that you're living, and then there's the person that's inside that goes, "Let me out. I can do that. I'm not too old. I'm not too young. I'm not too fat, not too skinny. Give me a chance." And there's a person inside of each of us that wants to come out and say, "I can do this, and I'm good at this, and I wish that I could excel at this."

[00:46:07] And so my story is I had 20 years of before of mediocreness and poor everything. Mediocre and immaturity and irresponsibility and all the fun things you do when you're surfing and living in the back of your van. And then I had a moment in my life that everyone can have where you say, "I want to change."

[00:46:31] And I say to my special ops candidates' kids, "How bad do you want this?" And they look at me and I said, "No, no. How bad do you want this? Because we're going to crush you today to see how bad you really want it. So I'm giving you a notice that today's going to be a miserable day with Ocean PT or whatever it is, and we're going to see if we can crush your why."

[00:46:52] We want to know how bad do you want it. And I've always known that when I wanted something bad enough, I learned that when I wanted to date a girl and she said no, then I went to another girl in high school, and I wasn't popular. And I asked another popular girl and she said no. And I said, "I'll move heaven and earth to get this affirmation or this something."

[00:47:13] If there's good waves, I'll move heaven and earth to go surfing or snow skiing, whatever it takes. If I want something bad enough, I'll get it. I'll change. And I say to people who are listening to this, "How bad do you want what you really want to do or be?" And then I say, "Are you willing to pay the price?" And they say, "What is the price?" And I say, "It's emotional. It's mental. It's financial. It's social, It's spiritual." It's going to cost you everything to get that thing, and it's a sacrifice to give up these things, then that's not worth it.

[00:47:49] Because when you want something bad enough, nothing makes a difference. You're willing to get rid of everything for that one thing. So when we crush these kids, I'll say to them, "Are you glad you quit?" And they quit. After 20 straight hours or something like that, they say, "I'm done. I'm cooked." We say, "Got it. Are you sure you want to say that?" I can ring the bell in the movie and take, "Are you really sure?" Yeah.

[00:48:13] Then I do autopsies with them in a tent. And I'll say, "Okay, here's your experience. I'm going to check you out, blah, blah, blah. Are you glad that you quit?" And they all go, "No." And I say, "Why did you quit?" "Well, I was overwhelmed and I lost it." So you emotionally lost it after 20 hours and now 10 minutes after you quit, you wish you hadn't quit. Yeah.

[00:48:36] And I say to them, "So what happened?" I lost it emotionally and mentally. And we say, "Got it." How bad do you want to do this? And we say, "Then come back and try it again." And I find when I say to a kid, "If I gave you a million bucks, would you do this?" And they go, "Oh, yeah." And I say, "If I give you $5, would you do that?" After they've quit? They go, "No, it's not worth it."

[00:49:03] So I say, "If I gave you a $500, would you go back out there and get in?" Yeah, probably. So between $5 and $500 is a place where it's not worth it anymore. All to say that when you want something bad enough, you'll divorce somebody and you'll get rid of that. You'll stop going home to an alcoholic family on Christmas and crash. If you want to lose the weight, if you want to get the degree, if you want something bad enough, you'll do whatever it takes for a season of time to live and get that thing.

[00:49:36] And most people, that person inside that wants to come out, you have to say, "Do I want to pay the price to let that person come out and change?" And most people say, "What's it going to cost me?" Well, it's going to cost your friends, family. It's going to cost your job. It's going to cost you everything that you think is valuable at this moment to get that one thing. And are you willing to pay it?

[00:49:59] And I find that champions, Olympians, winners, they're willing to pay the price. Every time I go to a new level in my life, I lose my friends. And I say to them, "You want to come with me?" And they go, "No, you're over the edge." And I say, "Yeah, but look what's over the edge. Look what's there." And they go, "I don't want it that bad." But look and see what could happen. I don't want it that bad. Okay, see you.

[00:50:27] And I climb up and get in that new head space, and they're back here with their excuses and all their stuff. And then they come and say, "How'd you do it?" Well, I left people like you behind and got around the right people who would encourage me. And all my life I've had friends that had to leave them behind, friends, leave them behind, and I want to bring them all with me, but I can't take with me because they don't want it as bad as I do.

[00:50:51] Get sober, whatever it is. And so to the listener out there, there's another person inside of every listener who says, "I see myself as this, but I'm not living it." Well, what's it going to take? What's it going to take? I hope not a tragedy. I hope it's going to take that you make a decision. You only have one life to live, and it's on autopilot doing nothing.

[00:51:14] You can change, but you got to change your friends. You got to change your social settings. You got to change everything to then focus on, I'm going to grow into this next place. And some people pay the price and some people just complain and live a sour life existing because they're stuck sucking their thumb that life's not good to them.

[00:51:37] But they've said no to the hard thing, which is to go suffer and learn to love suffering because that's what growth is. Every time you grow, you suffer. It's hard. And people need to do hard things to grow, and people don't want to do hard things. They want to be comfortable. Then you'll go nowhere. Life isn't the hard thing and getting through it and getting those wins. Does that make sense?

[00:51:57] Kate: It makes so sense that I feel like you just spoke to my soul. You just spoke to the season of my life in this last year of my life in a way nobody has where I had a moment I felt rendered speechless, which is rare. But without me even asking, you brought up the friend piece. And because sometimes I'll feel bad or this or that or just-- yeah.

[00:52:21] This last year, I have put everything on the line because I want it that bad. And that's the athlete in me. Swimmers are no joke. What kind of idiot is in the chlorine six hours a day and running stadiums and lifting weights as a kid. Everyone's getting drunk and you're at swim practice.

[00:52:40] Who does that? Swimmers are crazy. That's a whole other story. But it's just the discipline I have for my swimmy career where, I'll be candid with you, two weeks ago, Robert, there was a voice in me. One of those people inside of me, he's like, "I really want to give up." and it was devastating. I was heartbroken. And it's like, come on.

[00:53:02] Robert: Hey, listen. We all have that voice, and if you're doing something, you'll hear that voice often. If you're not doing anything, you probably won't hear it. It goes with the territory.

[00:53:13] Kate: Thank you for that because we need these reminders, and that's why this conversation is so special to me. Because like you, it's a lot of time to hear clapping to myself alone and there's moments where I'm like, "Man, I'd like a few more claps, or I'd like a little more support." And you feel-- because I'm an empath, I feel the blatant non-support even.

[00:53:37] Or people think you have some rich man in your life funding your life. I'm like, "No, self-funded." And so anyway, I so appreciate this perspective and this conversation because it has been a lonely season. And I appreciate those of us who do put it all on the line, and it's not just for me, it is that person inside of me. It is my inner child.

[00:54:02] We're so fierce when we're seven. It's that part of me, but also I want to do it. Well, I do know I have privileges that not everybody in the world has. I do want to do it for other people too, who maybe don't have a voice for whatever reason and just be an example of, like you, putting it all on the line. Or like your son in jail, putting it all on the line and seeing what can happen.

[00:54:26] I think we owe it to ourselves. And so rather than telling people anymore, I'm just going to live it. And if people want to jump on board, like, I wish I would've known you 20 years ago or even a year ago. Because I'm like, "I want to come with you to the scary place, and I'm willing to swim and do all this other crap you want to do." But I think I'm learning too to give myself that energy. Instead of trying to pull everyone along who doesn't want to come for whatever reason, giving my myself some of that energy.

[00:54:53] Robert: It's important that you find the right people to spend time with while entrepreneuring. There's nothing more difficult than being an entrepreneur. And the lows are so low, and the highs can be so high but so fleeting. And so that's why nine out of 10 personality types will never start anything because they don't want to have that low and that failure and that discouragement.

[00:55:18] And so entrepreneuring is the hardest thing you can do, because you're going against culture. You're going to create something out of nothing that they don't know that it's going to work or why would you do that? But you have a dream. So some of your listeners are entrepreneurs. They don't get it or they do get it.

[00:55:34] And some of them are not entrepreneurs and they go, "Boy, she's really having a problem today." No, it's just that when you're laying everything on the line for some vision that's inside you and no one gets it, it's lonely in there. And you need to find a group of entrepreneurs and hang out with them once a week and do therapy together and encourage each other that we're going to make it. And you probably will, but it's tough when you're alone.

[00:55:57] Kate: Yeah, speaking of being alone, we're both suicide prevention awareness activists, and that big message is you are not alone. And again, you're just my new favorite person. You did this documentary called One Is Too Many, and you lost someone that you love to suicide. Can you tell us a little bit about this project? It's on your website. We'll put it all in the notes. Just a few more questions. Again, this could be a 20-hour episode, but--

[00:56:24] Robert: We can do another one sometime.

[00:56:26] Kate: Yes. We will do it in person. I'd love to hear about this documentary, and then after that, I want to just get into how you have the energy, do all these different, not little projects, massive undertakings that most people will never do one of these things. And you've got 36 things on the list, but One Is Too Many documentary.

[00:56:46] Robert: I worked for a group called SEALFIT, which is a CrossFit gym for Navy SEAL training down in Carlsbad. And I worked with a Navy SEAL Master Chief, 26 years in, I don't know, 14 deployments, just this really solid Navy SEAL retiree. And I worked with him three times a year. We talk about kids, this and that.

[00:57:09] We'd do all-nighters together, training kids. We had the all night training. So we'd take kids from Carlsbad to La Jolla, and we'd run them all-night long in and out of the ocean, that kind of stuff. We'd laugh, making it hard on kids. Anyway, one time after our training, he went home and blew his head off. And so we all said Mark used to help suicide people.

[00:57:32] Mark didn't drink. Mark went to church. Mark was mellow, and he leaves us on a Sunday and blows his head off on a Tuesday. And he never let anybody know the snakes that were in his head that he had compartmentalized way inside with a lock and key over all those deployments of all those things he'd seen been a part of.

[00:57:55] And one day the lock came off and all that stuff came rushing out at once in his head, and he killed himself. Because they teach you how to not be emotional, so you can do your job, but they don't teach you how to process your stuff. And so you lock it up. And then if you're not processing it correctly, if it comes out too quick, it overwhelms you with what you've seen and what you've done, what you've been a part of, shooting women and children because they're all bombed up and they're walking towards you.

[00:58:26] Someone's going to pull a trigger with a-- get the kid close enough. We'll ignite the kid and suicide the kid out to kill you. You have to get the kid. All the stuff that you see in war. Anyway, when he went ahead and committed suicide, it rocked our military group.

[00:58:43] And somebody said to me when I was doing the 777, "Hey, if you really want to do one that's wild, you ought to row across the Atlantic." I said, "That's stupid." Who wants to row across the Atlantic? How many days does that take? Ah, 40 to 50. Really? When do you sleep? How many hours a day do you row? 12.

[00:59:05] That's stupid. And then this little voice got in my head and said, "You ought to do that veteran suicide prevention for Mark Crampton." And so I talked to my Navy SEAL guy friends and Air Force guys, stuff, and I said, I think that's one that I really want to commit to. I want to row across the Atlantic to raise money and awareness for veteran suicide for Mark.

[00:59:25] So I did the  Mark Crampton Memorial Row. And suicide is such a blight, such a curse on our nation. The old statistic, if you hear Biden on TV, he'll tell you that 23 guys, men and women, commit suicide. The newest study out of the University of Alabama is 40 vets commit suicide a today.

[00:59:47] So when I was running across the Atlantic, over 700 military guys committed suicide just during my row across the Atlantic. And so we want to help vets process their stuff and work on their issues so they don't drink, divorce, fight, be bitter, and commit suicide as an ultimate thing. We want to help them get help. And so I did that. I'm an advocate for veteran suicide.

[01:00:11] Kate: Thank you so much. That's so beautiful and heroic that you're doing that and taking on something else that's heavy, but so necessary and so important. It just speaks to your character, and I love how insane you are, and I say that with so much love. It's that term of endearment, and you're--

[01:00:29] Robert: I really loved Mark, but when they said, "You're too old." That was a deal breaker.

[01:00:34] Kate: With the dare. It's just another dare. Like, do the row. You cracked me up. You're such a hero. So you can check out that documentary on YouTube, and it's on your website as well, which we'll link because it's so beautiful. So thank you for that.

[01:00:50] Robert: Yeah. It's called One Is Too Many on YouTube.

[01:00:53] Kate: Yeah. And it's really powerful. Thank you for doing that work. We'll take it out here soon. But I feel like I bring up Tom Brady a lot in my speeches and in my talks because we were both Big 10 athletes at the same time, and he was still winning Super Bowls into his 40s. And my knees hurt when I go to Pilates. So I bow down to you, Tom, and I think I love Tom's story too because he wasn't first pick in the draft and winning.

[01:01:16] He was a backup quarterback in college. He wasn't winning the national titles. And what he went on to do, because like you, it's the work ethic, maybe he was a fan of some dares too, or people told him he couldn't do it, and he said, "Take that." But I love that he's reached out to you, Tom Brady, of all people, to say, "Hey, how can I be fit like you? How can I be like you at 70?" What'd you tell him?

[01:01:38] Robert: Actually, Tom didn't call me. His CEO, John Burns, called me from the TB12. You can see the logo. Tom Brady, TB12 T-shirts in Tampa. He has an assessment center, and they called me and said, "Hey, Tom wants to know, what do I do the next 30 years? You're in the game. What's it like? You're late 60s, and you're doing what you're doing."

[01:01:58] And it was just fun to then dialogue on his podcast, being interviewed like this about-- Tom doesn't lift weights anymore. Tom only uses bands. And he did that back in his, I don't know, probably the last six years. He thought the weights were too difficult on his joints for his movement. So he went to bands, bands to failure. And then he went plant-based.

[01:02:21] And so all the stuff that he has done, he's moved to a medical career now of helping people age better and be healthy. Anyway, when I got done, they said, "Hey, why don't you come to Tampa? Let us assess you." I'm a speaker, and so they-- next time you're in Florida.

[01:02:36] So I went to Florida on the speaking gig, and sure enough, I went in and said, "Hey, made an appointment." So they assessed me as a 67-year-old, 68-year-old, something like that. They did all kinds of tests on me. I didn't know I had so many different issues. They poked around on my body, and they made me do weights, but bands training.

[01:02:57] And so I said, "This is really hard, this band work." There's usually five, the multicolored bands and stuff. Anyway, it changed my perspective on aging and performance and fluidity. And so it was really fun experience to be down there. I left him a book. I never got to talk to him. Leave this stuff for Tom.

[01:03:20] And so I would love to meet him sometime and say, "Hey, you let me down by retiring. I thought you'd smoke those guys at 45, but you failed for the money with FOX." But anyway, I'm excited. He was my hero also. Don't give in, Tom. All the pundits said you're too old. Do it. But he did what was best for him.

[01:03:40] Kate: Mm-hmm. Thanks for sharing that. What keeps you going now? You've done so much. You've done lifetimes and lifetimes of things many of us will never achieve or have the courage to do.

[01:03:51] Robert: You don't have to do it. You weren't called to do it. You don't try to live up to me. Be yourself.

[01:03:56] Kate: That's a great thing to say too, because I think sometimes there's such the comparison trap, and we think, oh, I feel like an underachiever because of this.

[01:04:04] Robert: Yeah. Don't compare and contrast. Don't compare. I do what I do, and I can't do the things that I wish I could do that somebody else was doing.

[01:04:13] Kate: Great. And there's things I can do that you can't do. Or then you're like, maybe you don't want to do that. But I think that's just a good reminder here, is to really stay in your own lane. That's the swimmer in both of us. And be inspired by other people, certainly, but I think people get caught in that too. But so many people who are married with kids who really don't like either, for instance, because that's what you do or what people say to do.

[01:04:36] And so I think it's just spending more time alone, just clapping for ourselves, figuring out who we are and what we really want to do. And I have really, in italics, because it's not what everyone else's doing. Or we'd listen to this and-- I don't feel called to do an Ironman. I'm not doing an Ironman ever.

[01:04:54] And I even have the hardest part down as a swimmer. But this conversation has, for me, the takeaways and that I'm on the right path. And I think sometimes we think, we're really onto something big if we feel alone. We're really onto something big if we're losing a lot of friends. And so just these perspective shifts that we can take in and make meaning from.

[01:05:13] But as we head out here today, of all of these things that you've experienced on your journey, the good, the bad, the ugly, and maybe you don't even label any of it as such, but what stands out as something that you'll look back and think, man, I'm glad I took that dare? Or like, wow, I'm really proud of myself for that, or I'm giving myself an extra loud, long round of applause for that. What is that?

[01:05:37] Robert: This SEALFIT organization has crucible events, and the crucible events are precursors to Navy SEAL Hell Week. And so they have a six-hour nonstop, and they have a 12-hour nonstop, and they have a 24-hour nonstop, and they have a 50-hour nonstop. And the 50-hour is the big dog. And what happens is when you go to BUD/S, when you go to Hell Week, that second week of Navy SEAL training, they have a Hell Week, which is from Sunday night at 5 o'clock.

[01:06:04] Machine guns go off and the firefight and all this stuff, and they go to Friday night at 5:00. And they find that the psychological breaking point for the young men and a few young women is about Wednesday night that no one's used to being worked out with no sleep for two straight days.

[01:06:22] And so at on Wednesday night, if you can make it through Wednesday night in Hell Week, odds are you can make it to Friday with no sleep. Most time your brain flips out. You're just wigged out. You just don't know where you're going to get the next ounce of anything. You just learn to plow. Anyway, they offer a 50-hour experience to get you ready for going in.

[01:06:41] It's all Navy SEAL instructors. It's called SEALFIT. Well, of course, I, in my 60s, wanted to see if I could get as good a shape as I was in my 20s. Just because of aging, this thing, you're getting old, and you're feeling different, and you suck. And why don't you sit down, old man? Can you do one more rep, old man?

[01:06:59] You just hear it all the time. So I then said, "Okay, I'm going to go dark. And I asked my wife though, do you mind if I go weird? I'm going to focus, and I'm going to not be normal. I'm going to be really tired, and for the next year or so, I'm going to do nothing but train for this 50-hour nonstop, which would make me the oldest guy in the world ever attempted."

[01:07:22] Anyway, so I trained and I trained in Encinitas with Navy SEAL instructors, the ones who are going to kick my ass. And they said, "Robert, you really shouldn't show up." And I said, "I know." So when I went down there and did it and was standing at the end with all these kids, the thing that stood out was when the guy that told me not to show up, I got to shake his hand and he said, "Good job."

[01:07:48] I said, "Yeah." And that's all I said because he had to eat his words. And he was embarrassed. I said, "And the really fun part is I got an Ironman in three weeks that I haven't trained for. And then six weeks after that, coach, I have a 777-- seven Marathon, seven days, seven continents. And so I'm just glad I knocked this one out on my way."

[01:08:09] And he just looked at me, and I went, "See ya." And so what stood out was, I'd like to see this really good guy just go, "Huh?" And I went, "I win." So there's moments in time where you get vengeance or you get revenge where the validation is different than the way that you thought you'd get it.

[01:08:32] But to have this Navy SEAL Commander, 20-year Navy SEAL Commander look at me and say, "Oh, what?" And I go, "Nevermind." And I walk. And so that was a really fun experience in my 60s. I've had them in every decade, but that was a good 60s one.

[01:08:48] Kate: Thank you for that. You need to walk around with a microphone and just drop it everywhere you go. I would've loved to see just an actual microphone drop there in front of that man. That is such a legendary story. You are a legend, my friend.

[01:09:01] Robert: I don't know. It's fun to prove yourself that you bet on yourself and you win. It may not come out pretty. It may not come out the way you want, but when people bet on themselves versus what people have said about them, or what their culture has said to them, when you bet on yourself and you then focus, people become really happy.

[01:09:21] But they have the real lows like podcasting where no one says anything and you have to talk to yourself all the time. But that's the journey of maturity. And we're not climbing a ladder. We're climbing a jungle gym, and it doesn't go straight up. It's this, and then the door shuts.

[01:09:37] You climb a window and that window and you meet somebody over here, and it never works the way you think. And so you can't get rocked when it doesn't go this way. You have to, well, that door's closing or this didn't work out well. What's over here? And you just keep figuring things out. And it takes time, but it takes tenacity.

[01:09:52] And some people have that tenacity. Some people just quit and suck their thumb, and they say, "Ah, I'll go back to my 30-dollar an hour job and be mad at everybody and not like my job. And I'm stuck." You are not stuck. You're just chosen to live in that mindset. And if I could say that to your listeners, I'd say number one, "Go get mentors."

[01:10:12] Find mentors that can encourage you. And a mentor is someone who's done what you want to do. Maybe get more than one, and make sure that they're the right mentor, not a wannabe. They talk a good line, but they got real good fruit. Number two, I'd say walk in humility. Ask for help often. Ask for help.

[01:10:32] Number three, embrace discipline in your life. Immature people are undisciplined people. Immature people do what they feel, not what they've committed to. Someone says, how do you feel? I don't really give a rip how you feel. Do your job. And so when people live undisciplined life, they only do what they feel.

[01:10:52] They go in circles, and they don't have wins in life. The discipline is then to take on hard things. What are hard things? Something that's hard to you. And you'll be the happiest when you get these wins by taking yourself on. And again, most people don't want to have any stress in their life, and therefore they do what's easy, and that doesn't produce confidence. It doesn't produce happiness. It produces failure and poor self-worth.

[01:11:20] So if they could learn to take on something that's hard for them, whatever that is, and begin to get better at it, they'll get excited because, wow, I'm changing. And so those four things, if the listener can think on that and then call you or write you and tell you what they learned from this podcast, and I would love for them to do that and say, "That guy, Owens, is nuts. Don't ever have him on again."

[01:11:42] Or, "I like that guy, and these are the three things that I learned from him." I wish that you and the audience would write Kate and give her feedback about this and what you liked about it, what you didn't like about it, so she get the right people for her audience to encourage you. And so if those kind of things would percolate in people, I'd be a happy man.

[01:12:04] Kate: Thank you so much. Thank you for lighting this extra fire in my belly, and I have some tasks coming up, and I'm moving, and it's just trying to mentally and emotionally prepare for the physical labor of moving out of a home and into the unknown for a moment. And so I'm like, "I've got this."

[01:12:20] I will think of some of the things that you've done, and I'm like, "Whew, this is easy. Packing is really easy." And having fun with it. So whatever your thing is, whatever your struggle, your challenge, your goal, your desire, all of us just lighting that fire in our belly and having people like us to reach out to and listen to the show again and again and just keep going and really figure out what is important to you and let that inner child, that inner voice that says, "Hey, I really want to do that." Sign them up for the thing and help them.

[01:12:50] Robert: Sure. You bet. It's fun to explore. You have to fail forward.

[01:12:54] Kate: Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. It was--

[01:12:56] Robert: I would encourage you, if you're moving out of your house, just for grins, go sleep in your car one night. Just go someplace, sleep in your car, and say, "I'm making it a full-blown adventure here. This whole thing is hard for me to do, and I'm just going to go sleep in my car just to say, this is nuts, because you'll make it. You'll make it. You'll make it moving in this new place. You'll just make it. You don't know how, but you'll make it. And you'll look back and you'll go, "Bada bing. That was fun. I found a way to win." You can do it.

[01:13:24] Kate: It's an adventure. I'm embracing the adventure and thank you for just giving me that extra push and grit and also the humor. That's one of my strengths and values. So you're going to keep me laughing and smiling, and when I get tired, I'm going to think of all the things that you've done and be like, "I got this." And we can all channel our inner Robert Hamilton Owens.

[01:13:42] Robert: You get discouraged, you give me a call.

[01:13:45] Kate: I sure will. Thank you for that.

[01:13:47] Robert: So my website for people that want to follow, it's my name, Robert Hamilton Owens. And Hamilton's my middle name, which is a nice name that gave this adopted kid. roberthamiltonowens.com. And I'll even do this because it's always fun. My phone number for those who are listening is (949) 542 9600.

[01:14:07] And if you get wild, call me and say, "I heard you on that podcast." And I get phone calls from all over the world. And I say, "Which podcast? What'd you hear?" And they'll tell me, and I'll start laughing. What do you want to talk about? And so if I can encourage anybody out there, I'd be happy to do it.

[01:14:22] That's what we're supposed to do as older folks. You don't know Sam Taggart. He has this huge following. Anyway, I'm doing a podcast, and he introduces me as his first elderly podcast host. And I said, "Pardon me?" He said, "I mean senior." I said, "You called me elderly." And he goes, "We've never had a meeting this old on our podcast." And I said, "You need to go shoot yourself." Anyway, it was funny. So I get calls from all over the place, and if they need some help, call me.

[01:14:50] Kate: You're the best. Thank you so much, and thanks to all of you for being here. We have all of Robert's information in the show notes. Give him a call. I'm not going to give you my number, but you can email me, and please do. And please share this episode with anyone who meets a little extra fire in their belly to do whatever they feel called to do. We're all here to support you. This community is so supportive, so let's keep it going, and thank you for joining me on Rawish today. We'll see you next week everybody. Bye-bye.